{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1880", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1880, "subject": "postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1997-10-29T20:05:16+00:00", "last": "1999-10-29T17:26:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk" }, "date": "1999-10-28T10:27:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Daniel Fusch wrote:\nBy the way, I'm MUCH more familiar with modernism than postmodernism, so if\n anybody can clarify or correct my explanation here, I won't mind!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suspect that there are as many explanations of\npostmodermism as there are postmodernists, but my own pet\nin-one-sentence definition is to say that postmodern art is\nself-aware art. It's art with a built-in awareness of its\nown artificiality.\n\nFor modernists art was a way of trying to get as close as\npossible to the 'Truth' (eg: Joyce's epiphanies): the\ncharacters, the sensations, were all supposed to seem as\nreal as possible, while the art that brought them to you\nremained transparent. In postmodernism the art itself is the\nsubject of the art. Thus in Ben Marcus's fascinatingly\nbonkers 'The Age of Wire and String' you can have a chapter\nthat begins: \"Sky Destroys Dog. Air days, in the Western\nWorship Boxes, traditionally the Wednesday, Friday, and\nHalf-Man Day following the first Sunday that a dog has\nsuffocated the weather.\" You're not supposed to look beyond\nthe words for some higher meaning, you stop at the words\nthemselves and their arrangement." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alga wrote:\nthe stone town is Athens (and that when you go back a million years [say] at\nthat lattitude and longitude you find yourselves not in Greece but in South\nAmerica)," }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That is such an ingenious sleight-of-hand! But... but... if\nthe stone town is Athens, how can Severian, the Cumaen and\nco. be sitting on the roof of Apu-Punchau's house, when that\nwas built a million years ago in South America? \"When the\nbuilding was completed, I recognized the roof upon which\nJolenta would die, and I knew I would be buried beneath it.\"\nTUOTNS, chapter L." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "JMCAzurin", "address": "mikah at brewsoft.com" }, "date": "1999-10-29T17:26:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) RE: postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is just an idle observation. I'm not certain if it's been brought up \nbefore but....Wolfe translates 'Apu-Punchau' as 'Head of Day'. In Tagalog, \nat least, and possibly other languages spoken here in southeast asia, the \nword 'apo' means leader.\n\n Before I discovered this list, I was trying to find reasons for Nessus \nbeing somewhere south of here. Given that Nessus is supposed to be \nsomewhere in a huge land mass, that would mean that the oceans would have \nreceded by the time of the first empire. Indonesia, Malaysia, the \nPhilippines, Guam, Borneo - all landlocked, the northern parts of which \nwould be 'the hot lands of the north' (near the equator).\n\n That would put the Ascians in a not-so-hot area north of the equator: \nChina, the former USSR. Both communist countries, which is more or less \nwhat the Ascians are. (Ascians=Asians?) I intend no racial slurs here - I'm \na Southeast Ascian myself.\n\n (Yes I know this is a crazy theory *g*)\n\n Does anyone speak native south american languages? Those people crossed \nover into the Americas over the land bridge at the Bering Strait, and are \nof Asian descent too. Perhaps there is a similar word for 'leader'?\n\nMikah" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Tony Ellis\" \nSubject: postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism\nDate: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:27:49 -0700\n\nAlga wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "the stone town is Athens (and that when you go back a million years \n[say] at\nthat lattitude and longitude you find yourselves not in Greece but in \nSouth Am." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That is such an ingenious sleight-of-hand! But... but... if\nthe stone town is Athens, how can Severian, the Cumaen and\nco. be sitting on the roof of Apu-Punchau's house, when that\nwas built a million years ago in South America?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ian C Smith", "address": "iancsmith at onet.co.uk" }, "date": "1997-10-29T20:05:16+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) RE: postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: JMCAzurin \nTo: \nSent: Friday, October 29, 1999 5:26 PM\nSubject: (urth) RE: postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism\nMikah wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This is just an idle observation. I'm not certain if it's been brought up\nbefore but....Wolfe translates 'Apu-Punchau' as 'Head of Day'. In Tagalog,\nat least, and possibly other languages spoken here in southeast asia, the\nword 'apo' means leader.\n\n Does anyone speak native south american languages? Those people crossed\nover into the Americas over the land bridge at the Bering Strait, and are\nof Asian descent too. Perhaps there is a similar word for 'leader'?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ian wrote:\n\nMy wife is Brazilian (which contains a lot of words from amerindian\nlanguages) but she just look at me blankly when ia sked her about Apo, Apu,\napu-punchai or any similar words for 'leader'. One point to the SE asia\ntheory!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"Tony Ellis\" \nSubject: postmodernism, OTism, continent-ism\nDate: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:27:49 -0700\n\nAlga wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "the stone town is Athens (and that when you go back a million years\n[say] at\nthat lattitude and longitude you find yourselves not in Greece but in\nSouth Am." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That is such an ingenious sleight-of-hand! But... but... if\nthe stone town is Athens, how can Severian, the Cumaen and\nco. be sitting on the roof of Apu-Punchau's house, when that\nwas built a million years ago in South America?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "works" } ] } ] }