{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/19",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 19,
    "subject": "Alien invaders of Urth?",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1997-04-22T14:18:00+00:00",
    "last": "1997-04-22T14:36:53+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0001-0024@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Wells",
        "address": "adw at ovum.com"
      },
      "date": "1997-04-22T14:18:00+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Alien invaders of Urth?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Mantis,"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "As usual, or perhaps moreso, none of these points are unarguable.\n(Which makes me wonder why I bother putting them up."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I think they're very interesting, and thanks for posting them.\nNot that this will prevent me from arguing, just a little :-)."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Exultants as offworld invaders:\n-- Jonas says they are new (II, ch. 10)."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "True. I guess I had assumed the exultants to be a genetically\n\"improved\" aristocracy, rather than offworlders. Which would also\nfit with Jonas' remark, and explain why they are taller than armigers.\nBut this certainly isn't conclusive and doesn't explain"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "-- Thecla born under zodiac sign of Swan (IV, ch 23), not possible on\nUrth/Earth, but possible in a different star system."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "at all. Exultants' access to superior technology I had put down to a\nsimple class matter - just as fin-de-siecle English aristocracy had\n\"access to\" petrol-driven vehicles while the working classes \"had not\"\n(and also tended to be taller and healthier).\nBut we British tend to be obsessed with class.\n\nAs for Typhon,"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"I have told you that I was autarch on many worlds . . . This\nworld, the most ancient of all, I made my capital.\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "is suggestive but (as you admit), not conclusive. Typhon's\ncomment that"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"those to whom I had given control of such ships as could reach\nthe stars had fled in them\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "is fascinating in the light of BOtLS. We get the impression from\nIII Chs 25, 26 that Typhon's Piaton-transplant is relatively recent,\n(an experiment still in progress) which suggests that the Whorl left\nUrth shortly before the Conciliator arrived and Typhon was\nabandoned behind his curtain to die. So did the Whorl set sail\n_after_ Typhon's generals had fled in his starships? This suggests\nthat its despatch was a bit of an emergency measure, rather than\nbeing carefully-planned..\n\nHaving reread these passages, I am struck by an ambiguity which\nI hadn't noticed before. I had always assumed that Severian/the\nNew Sun unwittingly resurrected Typhon - particularly ironic as\nthis comes between two failed resurrections which Severian\nactually wanted to achieve. But I now note that Severian doesn't\nseem to touch Typhon at all (although it's not, admittedly,\ncompletely clear whether this is necessary for \"the Claw\" to\noperate). But he does fiddle with the machinery. So is Typhon\nresurrected by natural rather than supernatural means?\n\nDavid W/newt"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0001-0026@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jim Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "1997-04-22T14:36:53+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Alien invaders of Urth?",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0001-0024@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Mantis wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "-- Thecla born under zodiac sign of Swan (IV, ch 23), not possible on\nUrth/Earth, but possible in a different star system."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\t1. Cygnus is one of the decans of Aquarius. It is in the north, but if the\nUrth flipped....\n\n\t2. The planets have other names in the Urth of Severian's day. Perhaps the\nconstellations did also.\n\n\tEither of these could support an Urth birth for Thecla.\n\n\tHow about it?\n\nNutria"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}