{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1900",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1900,
    "subject": "Digest urth.v028.n072",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1999-11-02T13:44:41+00:00",
    "last": "1999-11-02T20:56:39+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0028-0346@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Kieran Mullen",
        "address": "kieran at phyast.nhn.ou.edu"
      },
      "date": "1999-11-02T13:44:41+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re:  Digest urth.v028.n072",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On\nBehalf Of Daniel Fusch\n\nOK, Jim,\n\nI have to disagree with this:\n\nThe Scientific Method has NOT disappeared from Urth; it is simply that\norganized (academic) sciene has disappeared.<snip>"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Daniel, I yield to your superior evidence. Indeed, I roll on my back and\nstretch my neck before you, making piteous mewling sounds."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "BTW, are there any \"good scientists\" in the saga?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Best,"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "   Hmmm... As a scientist myself, let me throw in a word or two.\n\n   The \"scientific method\" may still exist after a fashion, but one\ncritical aspect is missing:  publication.  By that I mean the communication\nwith others of your work so that it can be criticized or checked.  The\nwriting of books is banned, so each scientist we see is off on their own.\nWhile this may seem a stupid point, I think that it is part of the major\nbreak between alchemy and real science.  The alchemists tended to guard\ntheir secrets jealously.  \n\n   One possible group of scientists in the Seekers of Truth and Penetance.\nTheirs is an old and applied art, true, but I get the feeling that they have\nhad to learn from experience and pass that knowledge on.  (This argument is\na bit weak, since most of their knowledge seems like lore.)\n\n   I think that science is pretty absent because on Urth most discovery\nseems to be rediscovery - i.e. uncovering the wisdom of the Ancients.   \nEveryone seems to be oppressed by how much was known in the past.\n\n                       Kieran Mullen\n\n\n Kieran Mullen                         email: kieran at ou.edu\n Dept. of Physics and Astronomy        phone: (405) 325-3961\n The University of Oklahoma            FAX: (405) 325-7557\n Norman, OK 73019, USA                 http://www.nhn.ou.edu/~kieran/"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0028-0348@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Redhaven1",
        "address": "redhaven1 at aol.com"
      },
      "date": "1999-11-02T20:56:39+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n072",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0028-0346@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'm sure that someone on the list must have remarked somewhere along the line \nhow much Wolfe's concept of absorbing all a person's memories from one cell \nin their body resemble's Hebert's work in the Dune series with a ghola being \ncloned from one cell and still having all of the person's original memories.  \n[Whoa, run on sentence there. . .]  Anyway, which came first?  Did Wolfe get \nthe idea from Herbert's works or did Herbert develope the idea from Wolfe's?  \nAlso, is there any real scientific evidence that our cells can hold all of \nour memories, or is this probably pure science fiction?\n\n-Steve"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}