{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1919", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1919, "subject": "Digest urth.v028.n076", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "1999-11-04T17:56:01+00:00", "last": "1999-11-07T14:11:55+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeremy Crampton", "address": "jcrampto at gmu.edu" }, "date": "1999-11-04T17:56:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan Rabin " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe you are referring to \"natural theology\" or the argument from\ndesign, which is the belief that since the world was created by a\nsupernatural being, we (humans) can detect the hand of this god in nature.\nIt was a real belief, prevalent during the 17th-18th century in Europe.\nRobert Boyle is a good example. Kant and later Darwin refuted it and helped\nusher in modern science." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "were made so was so the cathedral would rise just like it did. He can't\nsee the Hand in nature.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is exactly the kind of thing they would say. Whether Wolfe is taking a\njab at it I don't know (tho sure sounds like it).\n\n\n__\nJeremy W. Crampton\t\t http://geog.gmu.edu jcrampto at gmu.edu\nDept. of Geography & Earth Science\n[MS 1E2]\t\t\t\t’Tis true; there’s magic in the web of it.\nGeorge Mason University\t\t\t\t\t--Othello (III.iv.69)\nFairfax, Va 22030" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Timothy Reilly", "address": "treilly at ozemail.com.au" }, "date": "1999-11-06T08:44:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ron Hale-Evans writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Could be; I have only read the first two Long Sun books, and that some\ntime\nago. (One reason is they seem to me to lack the richness of tone that I\nfind in both TBotNS and Marcus Aurelius.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, I had the same experience, (though I stopped rather earlier), and\nfor the same reason: the more straightforward narrative style of the Long\nSun books, (and many others - including short stories - that Wolfe has\nwritten), is I find much less aesthetic than the clear-eyed, calm and\nphilosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS\nand 5HC.\n\nAre the Long Sun books worth persevering with given this stylistic\npreference? I realise this might be thought the wrong question for this\ngroup, but it's put in the context of someone who has remained blown away by\nthe first four volumes of the BOTNS for many years.\n\nAnd does anyone else thing UotNS was a mistake? It seemed to me to detract\nfrom the grandeur of the previous four volumes, and was clearly not taking\nitself seriously near the end (all those silly puns by Valeria on the throne\nfor example). And some mysteries in BOTNS are more satisfying left\nunexplained than when seen in the light of UotNS, IMHO.\n\nFor me, 5HC and BOTNS proper (without the \"coda\") are Wolfe's real\nmasterpieces. While I revere him, like all authors some of his works are\nmuch greater than others, and these would be my choice.\n\nTim" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dave Conrad", "address": "nightman at io.com" }, "date": "1999-11-06T10:02:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Timothy Reilly wrote:\nRon Hale-Evans writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Could be; I have only read the first two Long Sun books, and that some\ntime\nago. (One reason is they seem to me to lack the richness of tone that I\nfind in both TBotNS and Marcus Aurelius.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually, I had the same experience, (though I stopped rather earlier), and\nfor the same reason: the more straightforward narrative style of the Long\nSun books, (and many others - including short stories - that Wolfe has\nwritten), is I find much less aesthetic than the clear-eyed, calm and\nphilosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS\nand 5HC." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tI thought that the Long sun books were good in a different way\nthan the New Sun, sort of like Donaldson's Covenant and Gap Chronicles.\nWith both formere series, I really read much slower than I usually do, but\ntended to savor the pages as I read them (and tried to resist the urge to\nsmack the snot out of Covenant). The second series were almost\npage-turners, by comparison. It was easier to get caught up in the flow\nof the story. I think part of it, in the case of Long Sun at least, was\nbeing more familiar with Wolfe's use of language. Knowing more about\nthings than the characters in LS made things go faster, too, because I\nwanted to read faster so I could keep putting things together. \n\nDave C.\n\niN*T*x" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Henley", "address": "jlhenley at erols.com" }, "date": "1999-11-06T11:16:24+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On\nBehalf Of Timothy Reilly\n\nAnd does anyone else thing UotNS was a mistake? It seemed to me \nto detract\nfrom the grandeur of the previous four volumes, and was clearly \nnot taking\nitself seriously near the end (all those silly puns by Valeria \non the throne\nfor example). And some mysteries in BOTNS are more satisfying left\nunexplained than when seen in the light of UotNS, IMHO." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Probably someone else thinks this. Not me though.\n\nBest,\n\n\nJim\n ****************************\n \"I once was lost\n\tbut now I'm just blind\"\n\t\t\t- Kid Rock " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "1999-11-07T14:11:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perservere with Long Sun, if for no other reason, because it leads towards\nShort Sun--which is, I think, more what you're looking for--on evidence of\nfirst volume, it's top-quality Lupine confessional narrative.\n\n\n\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce" } ] } ] }