Subject: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v028.n076

From: Jeremy Crampton <jcrampto at gmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:56:01 +0000

Hi,

>From: Dan Rabin <danrabin at a.crl.com>

I believe you are referring to "natural theology" or the argument from
design, which is the belief that since the world was created by a
supernatural being, we (humans) can detect the hand of this god in nature.
It was a real belief, prevalent during the 17th-18th century in Europe.
Robert Boyle is a good example. Kant and later Darwin refuted it and helped
usher in modern science.

>were made so was so the cathedral would rise just like it did.  He can't
>see the Hand in nature."

This is exactly the kind of thing they would say. Whether Wolfe is taking a
jab at it I don't know (tho sure sounds like it).

__
Jeremy W. Crampton		         http://geog.gmu.edu    jcrampto at gmu.edu
Dept. of Geography & Earth Science
[MS 1E2]				’Tis true; there’s magic in the web of it.
George Mason University					--Othello (III.iv.69)
Fairfax, Va 22030

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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From: Timothy Reilly <treilly at ozemail.com.au>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 08:44:13 +0000

Ron Hale-Evans writes:
> Could be; I have only read the first two Long Sun books, and that some
time
> ago. (One reason is they seem to me to lack the richness of tone that I
> find in both TBotNS and Marcus Aurelius.)

Actually, I had the same experience, (though I stopped rather earlier), and
for the same reason: the more straightforward narrative style of the Long
Sun books, (and many others - including short stories - that Wolfe has
written), is I find much less aesthetic than the clear-eyed, calm and
philosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS
and 5HC.

Are the Long Sun books worth persevering with given this stylistic
preference?  I realise this might be thought the wrong question for this
group, but it's put in the context of someone who has remained blown away by
the first four volumes of the BOTNS for many years.

And does anyone else thing UotNS was a mistake?  It seemed to me to detract
from the grandeur of the previous four volumes, and was clearly not taking
itself seriously near the end (all those silly puns by Valeria on the throne
for example).  And some mysteries in BOTNS are more satisfying left
unexplained than when seen in the light of UotNS, IMHO.

For me, 5HC and BOTNS proper (without the "coda") are Wolfe's real
masterpieces.  While I revere him, like all authors some of his works are
much greater than others, and these would be my choice.

Tim

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From: Dave Conrad <nightman at io.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:02:28 +0000

> philosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS

	I thought that the Long sun books were good in a different way
than the New Sun, sort of like Donaldson's Covenant and Gap Chronicles.
With both formere series, I really read much slower than I usually do, but
tended to savor the pages as I read them (and tried to resist the urge to
smack the snot out of Covenant).  The second series were almost
page-turners, by comparison.  It was easier to get caught up in the flow
of the story.  I think part of it, in the case of Long Sun at least, was
being more familiar with Wolfe's use of language.  Knowing more about
things than the characters in LS made things go faster, too, because I
wanted to read faster so I could keep putting things together.  

Dave C.

iN*T*x

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From: Jim Henley <jlhenley at erols.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 11:16:24 +0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On
> Behalf Of Timothy Reilly
> 

Probably someone else thinks this. Not me though.

Best,

Jim
 ****************************
 "I once was lost
	but now I'm just blind"
			- Kid Rock

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From: Alex David Groce <alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:11:55 +0000

Perservere with Long Sun, if for no other reason, because it leads towards
Short Sun--which is, I think, more what you're looking for--on evidence of
first volume, it's top-quality Lupine confessional narrative.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32
--
Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)
Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department
8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce