# Digest urth.v028.n076 *The Urth list — 5 messages, 5 voices, 04 Nov 1999* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Jeremy Crampton *04 Nov 1999, 17:56* Hi, > From: Dan Rabin I believe you are referring to "natural theology" or the argument from design, which is the belief that since the world was created by a supernatural being, we (humans) can detect the hand of this god in nature. It was a real belief, prevalent during the 17th-18th century in Europe. Robert Boyle is a good example. Kant and later Darwin refuted it and helped usher in modern science. > were made so was so the cathedral would rise just like it did. He can't > see the Hand in nature." This is exactly the kind of thing they would say. Whether Wolfe is taking a jab at it I don't know (tho sure sounds like it). __ Jeremy W. Crampton http://geog.gmu.edu jcrampto at gmu.edu Dept. of Geography & Earth Science [MS 1E2] ’Tis true; there’s magic in the web of it. George Mason University --Othello (III.iv.69) Fairfax, Va 22030 --- ### Timothy Reilly *06 Nov 1999, 08:44 · follows Jeremy Crampton* Ron Hale-Evans writes: > Could be; I have only read the first two Long Sun books, and that some > time > ago. (One reason is they seem to me to lack the richness of tone that I > find in both TBotNS and Marcus Aurelius.) Actually, I had the same experience, (though I stopped rather earlier), and for the same reason: the more straightforward narrative style of the Long Sun books, (and many others - including short stories - that Wolfe has written), is I find much less aesthetic than the clear-eyed, calm and philosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS and 5HC. Are the Long Sun books worth persevering with given this stylistic preference? I realise this might be thought the wrong question for this group, but it's put in the context of someone who has remained blown away by the first four volumes of the BOTNS for many years. And does anyone else thing UotNS was a mistake? It seemed to me to detract from the grandeur of the previous four volumes, and was clearly not taking itself seriously near the end (all those silly puns by Valeria on the throne for example). And some mysteries in BOTNS are more satisfying left unexplained than when seen in the light of UotNS, IMHO. For me, 5HC and BOTNS proper (without the "coda") are Wolfe's real masterpieces. While I revere him, like all authors some of his works are much greater than others, and these would be my choice. Tim --- ### Dave Conrad *06 Nov 1999, 10:02 · follows Timothy Reilly* > On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Timothy Reilly wrote: > Ron Hale-Evans writes: >> Could be; I have only read the first two Long Sun books, and that some >> time >> ago. (One reason is they seem to me to lack the richness of tone that I >> find in both TBotNS and Marcus Aurelius.) > Actually, I had the same experience, (though I stopped rather earlier), and > for the same reason: the more straightforward narrative style of the Long > Sun books, (and many others - including short stories - that Wolfe has > written), is I find much less aesthetic than the clear-eyed, calm and > philosophical (and perhaps mildly Proustian) first person voice of the BOTNS > and 5HC. I thought that the Long sun books were good in a different way than the New Sun, sort of like Donaldson's Covenant and Gap Chronicles. With both formere series, I really read much slower than I usually do, but tended to savor the pages as I read them (and tried to resist the urge to smack the snot out of Covenant). The second series were almost page-turners, by comparison. It was easier to get caught up in the flow of the story. I think part of it, in the case of Long Sun at least, was being more familiar with Wolfe's use of language. Knowing more about things than the characters in LS made things go faster, too, because I wanted to read faster so I could keep putting things together. Dave C. iN*T*x --- ### Jim Henley *06 Nov 1999, 11:16 · follows Dave Conrad* > -----Original Message----- > From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On > Behalf Of Timothy Reilly > > And does anyone else thing UotNS was a mistake? It seemed to me > to detract > from the grandeur of the previous four volumes, and was clearly > not taking > itself seriously near the end (all those silly puns by Valeria > on the throne > for example). And some mysteries in BOTNS are more satisfying left > unexplained than when seen in the light of UotNS, IMHO. Probably someone else thinks this. Not me though. Best, Jim **************************** "I once was lost but now I'm just blind" - Kid Rock --- ### Alex David Groce *07 Nov 1999, 14:11 · follows Jim Henley* Perservere with Long Sun, if for no other reason, because it leads towards Short Sun--which is, I think, more what you're looking for--on evidence of first volume, it's top-quality Lupine confessional narrative. "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32 ``` Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu) Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department 8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce ``` ---