{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1949", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1949, "subject": "Sundry", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-11-10T18:04:28+00:00", "last": "1999-11-11T02:13:35+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Charles Dye", "address": "raster at highfiber.com" }, "date": "1999-11-10T18:04:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Sundry", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Daniel Fusch\" writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Severian tells us, however, that torturers are not supposed to make \ndecisions or judgements. Their task is blind, unquestioning obedience to the \ndecisions passed down to them by the proper authorities. Severian even tells \nus that he feels extremely uncomfortable when placed in the position of \njudge, is that he has developed an extreme aversion to judging, so that he \nis glad when Foila keeps postponing the judgement." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, but Severian changes during the course of TBOTNS. One of his first\nofficial acts as Autarch, in Chapter XXXIV of Citadel, is judgment of\nthe Guild's clients. In a few cases, he overturns the sentences imposed\nby the judges of the Commonwealth. If Severian ever had a horror of\nrendering judgments, I think he lost it somewhere along the way.\n\nMantis suggests:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Or we can take the female path of stone cold sobriety: Foila gives her\njudgement of the suitors in \"The Armiger's Daughter.\"\n\nSlam dunk; home run; game over. The fight was rigged from the start. But\nthat didn't make it unworthy to participate in." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is the fight rigged? Foila's story obviously reflects her situation and\ntells us a great deal about her character. But I think it's noteworthy\nthat the maid in Foila's tale does not \"choose to keep herself for herself.\"\n\nShortly before Foila tells her story, the Pelerines' slave Winnoc informs\nus that \"There's only three ways a man can be a slave.... Though for a\nwoman it's different, what with marriage and the like.\" I don't think\nthat Foila's story necessarily tells us *who* she intends to marry.\nRather, she's letting her suitors (and us) know just *how* the marriage\nis going to work. The armiger's daughter is the brains of the partnership;\nshe knows how to give orders by requesting a decision. Foila is a combat\nveteran, and she wants it understood that she is not going to be a chattel\nof her future husband -- whoever he turns out to be.\n\nOn the other hand, it's entirely possible that Foila has already decided\nwho will win the contest, and intends to nudge Severian in the correct\ndirection if she sees that he's about to get it wrong. One obvious way\nwould be to clarify the word \"best.\"\n\nJMCAzurin writes regarding Severian's \"last\" and\nlater visits to the mausoleum:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " This doesn't have to be either an outright lie or a memory failure.\nYou might simply interpret the quote as, \"The day after my elevation, I\nwent to the tomb. Little did I know it would be my last such visit as a\nmember in good standing of the order of seekers of truth and penitence,\nfor I was soon to be exiled for facilitating Thecla's suicide.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You could also view it as being literally accurate. The Severian who\nvisits the tomb as Autarch is not the same man as the one who placed\nthe coin under the stone.\n\nraster at highfiber.com\n\n(Chattel. Chatelaine. Hm.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Fusch", "address": "dfusch at hotmail.com" }, "date": "1999-11-11T02:13:35+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Sundry", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "(snip)\n\"Daniel Fusch\" writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Severian tells us, however, that torturers are not supposed to make\ndecisions or judgements. Their task is blind, unquestioning obedience to \nthe\ndecisions passed down to them by the proper authorities. Severian even \ntells\nus that he feels extremely uncomfortable when placed in the position of\njudge, is that he has developed an extreme aversion to judging, so that he\nis glad when Foila keeps postponing the judgement." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "(Charles writes)\nAh, but Severian changes during the course of TBOTNS. One of his first\nofficial acts as Autarch, in Chapter XXXIV of Citadel, is judgment of\nthe Guild's clients. In a few cases, he overturns the sentences imposed\nby the judges of the Commonwealth. If Severian ever had a horror of\nrendering judgments, I think he lost it somewhere along the way.\n\n\nWell, that may be...but at the time of the storytelling contest, Severian \nhas an aversion to judging." } ] } ] }