{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1976",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1976,
    "subject": "Triskele",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1999-11-23T01:25:21+00:00",
    "last": "1999-11-23T11:32:39+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0028-0509@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "1999-11-23T01:25:21+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Triskele",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Ron Hale-Evans wrote:\nSpeaking of which, does anyone agree with my assessment that (a) Triskele\nwas already dead, and is an aquastor from the moment Sev touches him and he\nopens his eyes, and that (b) it is likely that it is the aquastor Malrubius\nwho is caring for Triskele on his forays away from Sev?<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Yes, Triskele was already dead, but he wasn't an aquastor after Sev touched\nhim. An aquastor is rather like a solidified hologram, created and\nmaintained by machinery which has a limited range. Its mental properties are\nderived from machinery scanning some entity for memories to supply its\npersonality. Aquastors are only created by folks from Yesod. When Sev\nreanimates someone he is doing something else. They are truly alive and are\nthen independent of him for continued existence. This ability to bring back\nthe dead is apparently something the Hieros cannot do themselves. When Sev\ndied on the ship and was brought back by Tzadkiel, it was as an aquastor.\nSev then took on a life independent of the animating machinery. Sev's\nability to bring back the dead is what causes Famulimus and Barbatus to fall\ndown before him and kiss the ground at his feet in the tomb of Apu-Punchau.\nAfter recounting to Sev how Tzad had brought him back to life as an eidolon,\nSev complained:\n\n        \"Why couldn't Tzadkiel have called me back as I called back Zama?\nHealed me as I healed Herena? Why did I have to die?\"\n        I have never been more startled than I was by what happened next:\nFamulimus knelt and kissed the floor before me.\n        Barbatus said, \"What makes you think Tzadkiel wields such power?\nFamulimus and Ossipago and I are nothing before him, but we're not _his_\nslaves; and great though he is, he's not the head of his race and its\nsavior.\" (V, L)\n\nIt can be argued, and someone probably will, that Sev's power comes from the\nIncreate, but it was at Sev's feet that the Hierodules prostrated themselves\nupon hearing from his own mouth that he could do something that the High and\nMighty of Yesod couldn't. I hesitate to parse the religious implications of\nthat act.\n\nRoy"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0028-0514@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alex David Groce",
        "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu"
      },
      "date": "1999-11-23T11:32:39+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Triskele",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0028-0509@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "It can be argued, and someone probably will, that Sev's power comes from the\nIncreate, but it was at Sev's feet that the Hierodules prostrated themselves\nupon hearing from his own mouth that he could do something that the High and\nMighty of Yesod couldn't. I hesitate to parse the religious implications of\nthat act."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'll give it a shot.  Nutria's suggestion about Sev's ho-hum career as\nConciliator being remembered because it reminded humanity of an earlier and\nconsiderably more significant Conciliator seems relevant here--I've argued\nbefore that Severian's \"non-tech\" miracles that the hieros are impressed by\nare possible because Sev. is, in some weird way, like Silk, an apostolic\nfigure--not in the original sense of being a witness to the resurrection, but\nsomething like that.  The Increate/Outsider is granting this power, and the\nNew Testament letters are full of statements that post-Penecost, the apostles\nwill be able to do things and know things that even the angels don't dream of.\n(much less angelic seeming aliens from another universe who may or may not be\nsupposed to actually be angels.)\n\nOh, BTW, William -- how about Vodalus = Sir Roderick Spode?\n\n\n\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}