{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1989", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1989, "subject": "Black Hole Sun", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1999-11-30T20:06:45+00:00", "last": "1999-12-01T09:23:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Henley", "address": "jlhenley at erols.com" }, "date": "1999-11-30T20:06:45+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Black Hole Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On\nBehalf Of Greene, Carlton\n\n\nPersonally, I prefer the theory that Erebus and Abaia took up\nshop on Urth\nin part because of an absence of harmful solar radiation that made the\nplanet a comfortable dwelling place." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I tend to think of them as home grown - Abaia as maybe the first giant (or\nmaybe just the guy who was _meaner_ than the first giant, if you get my\ndrift), and I'm really taken with the idea that Erebus is a \"chem\"/giant\nrobot/machine intelligence now. He might then be a leftover from\nfirst-empire days. Why is he in Antarctica? Why, so the chips don't\noverheat of course! \n\nScylla and Arioch? Oh who cares. Let's face it - they just don't have the Q\nRating the other two do. It was a bad career move on Arioch's part to leave\nMoorcock - he was a star there." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One last thought: Has anybody questioned why a White Fountain\nwould stop a black hole?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can see it. A \"white fountain\" is a wormhole, which is (or was, I'm\nhardly current) conceived of as the opposite of a black hole. On the theory\nthat black holes are drains into other universes and white holes are drains\n_from_ other universes, one could imagine some physical interaction whereby\nthe white fountain adds more stuff than the black hole takes away. (At\nfirst I thought they might just \"cancel out,\" but that wouldn't be enough\nbecause the sun needs rebuilding, not just an end to its consumption.)\n\nBest,\n\n\nJim\n ******************************************\n\"What fades in time Costello/\nwill hurt much more\" Bacharach, \"My Thief\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Fusch", "address": "dfusch at hotmail.com" }, "date": "1999-12-01T06:13:58+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Black Hole Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello!\n\nJim said...\n\n(snip)\n\"Scylla and Arioch? Oh who cares. Let's face it - they just don't have the Q \nRating the other two do. It was a bad career move on Arioch's part to leave \nMoorcock - he was a star there.\"\n\nThat's pretty funny. I suppose we could also say that Scylla should have \nstuck with the Odyssey!\n\nI like the north/west/east/south hypothesis that's up in the air, by the \nway....\n\n(snip)\n\"On the theory that black holes are drains into other universes and white \nholes are drains _from_ other universes, one could imagine some physical \ninteraction whereby the white fountain adds more stuff than the black hole \ntakes away. (At first I thought they might just \"cancel out,\" but that \nwouldn't be enough because the sun needs rebuilding, not just an end to its \nconsumption.)\"\n\nThis is how I've always pictured it, too. However, this does raise the \nquestion--if the White Fountain adds more than the black hole can take, then \nwon't that build up, causing the New Sun to grow constantly brighter at a \nsteadily increasing rate? That doesn't sound very hospitable! Hmmm...any \nthoughts on how this is supposed to work? (Physics isn't my strong point, I \nfear.)\n\nOne final conjecture: when reading TBOTNS, I always received the impression \nthat the giants/entities/whatever were immeasurably ancient (of course, all \nof Urth is immeasurably ancient). They had an \"eternal\" feel to them. \nCertainly, there is never any mention in the Book of how these entities \narrived. Granted, at the moment, I have no textual evidence to give you, but \nhere's a speculation: what if Abaia & Co. are presumed to be already living \nin the sea (or on Mt. Erebus, if that is taken as Erebus' physical throne) \nin our own age--simply inactive (because they are young, or because they are \nwaiting, or for some other reason). Only a hypothesis--but perhaps an \ninteresting one.\n\nWell, that's all I have for now." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1999-12-01T08:30:24+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Black Hole Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Greene, Carlton wrote:\nOne last thought: Has anybody questioned why a White Fountain would stop a\nblack hole? One cannot (at least as we understand it now) \"fill up\" a black\nhole by bringing another star (or quasar) into the picture. So does this\nmean that the White Fountain is merely outshining the black hole while the\nhole slowly feeds off it? Is the Messiah's salvation merely a temporary fix\n(albeit a long one)? That seems very unsatisfying from an allegorical\nstandpoint. Perhaps the lesson is that Man is not truly redeemed, merely on\nprobation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense to assume the white hole is\nan eternal solution to entropy. All the stars are gonna die eventually\n(unless this is a gnab gib universe). The white hole prevents the\npremature end of the sun.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Greene, Carlton", "address": "cgreene2 at hunton.com" }, "date": "1999-12-01T09:23:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Black Hole Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:\nOne last thought: Has anybody questioned why a White Fountain would stop a\nblack hole? One cannot (at least as we understand it now) \"fill up\" a\nblack\nhole by bringing another star (or quasar) into the picture. So does this\nmean that the White Fountain is merely outshining the black hole while the\nhole slowly feeds off it? Is the Messiah's salvation merely a temporary\nfix\n(albeit a long one)? That seems very unsatisfying from an allegorical\nstandpoint. Perhaps the lesson is that Man is not truly redeemed, merely\non\nprobation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Rostrum wrote:\n\n<>\n\nCertainly the White Fountain will not prevent the eventual fizzle or\nre-crunch of the universe. What disturbed me is the notion that the White\nFountain may not \"root out\" the worm gnawing at the heart of the Old Sun.\nIt just gives the worm more to gnaw on -- \"chew all you want -- we'll make\nmore!\" From an allegorical standpoint, it takes away much of the punch of\nthe New Sun burning away the old corruption, etc.\n\nCarlton" } ] } ] }