Subject: RE: (urth) Black Hole Sun

From: Jim Henley <jlhenley at erols.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:06:45 +0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On
> Behalf Of Greene, Carlton
>
>
> Personally, I prefer the theory that Erebus and Abaia took up
> shop on Urth
> in part because of an absence of harmful solar radiation that made the
> planet a comfortable dwelling place.

I tend to think of them as home grown - Abaia as maybe the first giant (or
maybe just the guy who was _meaner_ than the first giant, if you get my
drift), and I'm really taken with the idea that Erebus is a "chem"/giant
robot/machine intelligence now. He might then be a leftover from
first-empire days. Why is he in Antarctica? Why, so the chips don't
overheat of course! <g>

Scylla and Arioch? Oh who cares. Let's face it - they just don't have the Q
Rating the other two do. It was a bad career move on Arioch's part to leave
Moorcock - he was a star there.

> One last thought: Has anybody questioned why a White Fountain
> would stop a black hole?

I can see it. A "white fountain" is a wormhole, which is (or was, I'm
hardly current) conceived of as the opposite of a black hole. On the theory
that black holes are drains into other universes and white holes are drains
_from_ other universes, one could imagine some physical interaction whereby
the white fountain adds more stuff than the black hole takes away. (At
first I thought they might just "cancel out," but that wouldn't be enough
because the sun needs rebuilding, not just an end to its consumption.)

Best,

Jim
 ******************************************
"What fades in time                           Costello/
will hurt much more"                        Bacharach, "My Thief"

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

---

From: Daniel Fusch <dfusch at hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 06:13:58 +0000

Hello!

Jim said...

(snip)
"Scylla and Arioch? Oh who cares. Let's face it - they just don't have the Q 
Rating the other two do. It was a bad career move on Arioch's part to leave 
Moorcock - he was a star there."

That's pretty funny. I suppose we could also say that Scylla should have 
stuck with the Odyssey!

I like the north/west/east/south hypothesis that's up in the air, by the 
way....

(snip)
"On the theory that black holes are drains into other universes and white 
holes are drains _from_ other universes, one could imagine some physical 
interaction whereby the white fountain adds more stuff than the black hole 
takes away. (At first I thought they might just "cancel out," but that 
wouldn't be enough because the sun needs rebuilding, not just an end to its 
consumption.)"

This is how I've always pictured it, too. However, this does raise the 
question--if the White Fountain adds more than the black hole can take, then 
won't that build up, causing the New Sun to grow constantly brighter at a 
steadily increasing rate? That doesn't sound very hospitable! Hmmm...any 
thoughts on how this is supposed to work? (Physics isn't my strong point, I 
fear.)

One final conjecture: when reading TBOTNS, I always received the impression 
that the giants/entities/whatever were immeasurably ancient (of course, all 
of Urth is immeasurably ancient). They had an "eternal" feel to them. 
Certainly, there is never any mention in the Book of how these entities 
arrived. Granted, at the moment, I have no textual evidence to give you, but 
here's a speculation: what if Abaia & Co. are presumed to be already living 
in the sea (or on Mt. Erebus, if that is taken as Erebus' physical throne) 
in our own age--simply inactive (because they are young, or because they are 
waiting, or for some other reason). Only a hypothesis--but perhaps an 
interesting one.

Well, that's all I have for now.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 08:30:24 +0000

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Greene, Carlton wrote:

> One last thought: Has anybody questioned why a White Fountain would stop a
> black hole?  One cannot (at least as we understand it now) "fill up" a black
> hole by bringing another star (or quasar) into the picture.  So does this
> mean that the White Fountain is merely outshining the black hole while the
> hole slowly feeds off it?  Is the Messiah's salvation merely a temporary fix
> (albeit a long one)?  That seems very unsatisfying from an allegorical
> standpoint.  Perhaps the lesson is that Man is not truly redeemed, merely on
> probation.

On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense to assume the white hole is
an eternal solution to entropy.  All the stars are gonna die eventually
(unless this is a gnab gib universe).  The white hole prevents the
premature end of the sun.

-Rostrum

---

From: Greene, Carlton <cgreene2 at hunton.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:23:33 +0000

> standpoint.  Perhaps the lesson is that Man is not truly redeemed, merely
on

Rostrum wrote:

<<On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense to assume the white hole is
an eternal solution to entropy.  All the stars are gonna die eventually
(unless this is a gnab gib universe).  The white hole prevents the
premature end of the sun.>>

Certainly the White Fountain will not prevent the eventual fizzle or
re-crunch of the universe.  What disturbed me is the notion that the White
Fountain may not "root out" the worm gnawing at the heart of the Old Sun.
It just gives the worm more to gnaw on -- "chew all you want -- we'll make
more!"  From an allegorical standpoint, it takes away much of the punch of
the New Sun burning away the old corruption, etc.

Carlton