{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2012", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2012, "subject": "urthquake", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-12-02T18:49:55+00:00", "last": "1999-12-02T20:35:26+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "1999-12-02T18:49:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re:urthquake", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis wrote a very insightful piece (as was the recent one about Foila,\nBTW) with which I quibbled on a small point:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So Roy, are you saying that the resurrection at the Convulsor was\naccomplished via the more usual white fountain energy rather than any other\nsource? I can't really tell from your post.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Yes, assuming, that is, that that is the source.\n\n I don't know how Wolfe thought to rationalize the quake; my only point\nwas that it wasn't a natural one, which the text seems to support. The\neffect seems to have been localized. Perhaps Severian acted as a lightning\nrod, discharging the energy into the ground, both of the weapon and whatever\nsupernatural revivifying agency is responsible for the suspension of the\nlaws of physics necessary to keep him alive.\n\n The attending physician's contention that it was a natural quake and\nthat Sev wasn't struck by the energy beam is just the NEW SUN version of\nDoctor Crane's hypothesis about Silk's enlightenment. Such a timely quake,\neven if such geological activity still took place, just *ain't gonna\nhappen*. It was just another miracle in the Conciliator's legend, like those\nin the Gospels attendant upon Jesus. Miracles have no rational explanation,\nand Wolfe clearly believes in miracles; you have to to be a Christian. That\nsimilar wonders occasioned by Sev's \"death\" at the Citadel are not\nreplicated elsewhen he dies wasn't necessary for the Legend or for Wolfe's\ntheme or plot; besides, he had to account for the broken Curtain Wall. \nWolfe was more concerned with setting up echoes of Jesus with the\nConciliator for religious resonance than explaining the science in his\nfiction. Bad science or good, the scientific tidbits in the Urth Cycle were\njust a sop thrown to the more ardent purists of the genre who, like us,\nstrain at scientific gnats while swallowing religious camels. Rational\nscience cannot account for many of the plot elements of NEW SUN any more\nthan you can take a sliderule to the Bible.\n\n That's why your face among the \"hard-ish sf\" crowd is not smiling. :-)\n\nRoy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Henley", "address": "jlhenley at erols.com" }, "date": "1999-12-02T20:35:26+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Re:urthquake", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On\nBehalf Of Roy C. Lackey\n\n I don't know how Wolfe thought to rationalize the quake; my\nonly point\nwas that it wasn't a natural one, which the text seems to support. The\neffect seems to have been localized. Perhaps Severian acted as a\nlightning\nrod, discharging the energy into the ground, both of the weapon\nand whatever\nsupernatural revivifying agency is responsible for the suspension of the\nlaws of physics necessary to keep him alive." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think Roy's right, with a minor possible modification: my impression was\nthat one of the things the quake did was ensure that the beam _missed_, or\nat least caught Sev only glancingly. Regardless, I class the earthquake\nwith Big Storm on Boat as an environmental effect Sev generates." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " The attending physician's contention that it was a natural quake and\nthat Sev wasn't struck by the energy beam is just the NEW SUN version of\nDoctor Crane's hypothesis about Silk's enlightenment." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm now far enough in Long Sun that I do not, as I did when this came up\nbefore, wonder why people keep adducing Frazier..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Miracles have no rational explanation,\nand Wolfe clearly believes in miracles; you have to to be a\nChristian." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or they do have a rational explanation but it's not the full explanation -\nthat is, that the \"miracle\" consists in the bending of rational processes\nto divine purpose, or, to put it another way, the rational explanation is\nmerely the means used to work the Divine Will." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Bad science or good, the scientific tidbits in the Urth\nCycle were\njust a sop thrown to the more ardent purists of the genre who, like us,\nstrain at scientific gnats while swallowing religious camels." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And here I must demur. \"Just a sop\" is a prejudicial way of stating a\nviewpoint that is at least arguable and at worst obviously wrong - that is,\nwe know that Wolfe took great pains to support his saga with a scientific\nfoundation, and even took great pride in it. He as much as tells us that it\nwas a major reason for writing the story. Statements from \"there's no\n'magic' in TBOTNS\" point to his description of what he meant by \"science\nfantasy\" indicate just how important the \"science fictional\" aspects of the\nstory were to him - I get the impression that it was where a lot of the\n_fun_ lay in composing the saga. That and ripping off as much Borges as\npossible...\n\nBest,\n\n\nJim\n *****************************************\n \"Just because you won't unlock your door\n that don't mean you don't love me any more\"\n -- Steve Earle" } ] } ] }