{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2064",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2064,
    "subject": "Yesod and Heaven",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2000-01-09T15:42:17+00:00",
    "last": "2000-01-09T15:42:17+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0028-0676@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jim Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "2000-01-09T15:42:17+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Yesod and Heaven",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Just recently reading and trying to catch up. A note on:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 11:25 AM 4/22/99 +0200, N Gevers wrote:\nFollowing on fascinating remarks by Ori Kowarski and mantis, re the\nHierogrammates as secular conspirators (fallible or not):\n1) Even if one views the Hierogrammates as conspirators in their own\nsecular/evolutionary interests, they can, and in my view should, still\nbe viewed as instruments of the Increate. Their Yesod is part of a\nhierarchy of universes that culminates in Heaven, the pleroma, or\nwhatever: the home of the Increate. Elsewhere, mantis has speculated\nthat the immediate cosmic environment of Urth is a hierarchy of three\nuniverses as follows:\n                    Yesod\n                    Briah\n                    Abaddon,\nthese linked by black holes and White Fountains. But given Wolfe's\nCabbalistic terminology, one should invoke the Sefiroth above Yesod,\nto produce a wider scheme of universes as follows:\n     The Pleroma (Heaven, the Increate, the Ein Sof)\n                      Keter\n                 Binah    Chokmah\n                Gevurah     Hesed\n                      Tiferet\n                   Hod       Netzah\n                       Yesod\n                     Briah (Malkuth?)\n                       Abaddon"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "etc. etc.\n\n\tI asked Wolfe about this either in or around the time of my interview that\nis posted on Paul Duggan's website. I had supposed he intended to allude to\nthe whole neoplatonic-cabbalistic chain, but he indicated that he had just\npicked the name Yesod as a good symbol for the higher world, without\nintending the whole Qabalistic scheme. Maybe he was just funning with me,\nbut since only the three tiers show up in the NS works, I suspect that's\nall he intends. As in the bible, you've got a created heaven of angels, an\nearth, and a lower realm of fallen angels. Now, Yesod in NS is not the\nbiblical heaven, but does correspond to it in some symbolic ways. At any\nrate, I don't think Wolfe intended to imply the entire neoplatonic heirarchy.\n\tOf course, this is always the problem. When Wolfe pulls a token from here\nand there to toss into the mix, how much of the baggage of that token is\nsupposed to come with it? \n\nNutria"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}