Ziggurat
The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 30 Jan 2000
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2103

Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright
in each message remains with the person who wrote it.

Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original
archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than
retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.

==============================================================================

Alex David Groce — 30 Jan 2000, 11:09

I don't agree with Robert's theory, but it sounds more plausible to me than
Max. Del.  If Wolfe intended Max. Del., I think he signally failed to put
in enough hints for us to parse it--unless, as Nutria says, we come to the
story with strong suspicions that "things MUST not be as they seem to be
here."  It strikes me (I think this was partly the motivation in Kessel's
case) as an attempt to "rescue" Wolfe from having written this (quoting the
criticism mentioned by Dozois) "sexist asshole" Emory into being.

And Robert, we actually have a healthy divide--Rat, Alga, me on one side, you
(fundamentally) standing fairly close to us, if edging away from Emory, and 
Mantis and Swanwick across the room.

One point:  The appearance of the shouting Brownie strikes me as possible
evidence that the Ziggurat is a Brownie-ship, not a static time-shifting
structure that belongs in the lake (much as I actually like this idea).

Another point:  Emory's emotional "deadness" at Brook's death seems to me to
be an intentional "parody" (by making it more human and more real) of the
Charles Broson-typical-male response to murder:  coldness and grabbing all
the weapons he can find in order to exact revenge.


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

  --
  Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)
  Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department
  8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066
  http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Josh Levitan — 05 Feb 2000, 04:42
  follows, by subject match Alex David Groce

Alga wrote, re: "The Ziggurat":

> When I referred to Tiptree and Russ, I was thinking of this story, but even 
> more centrally of Tiptree's "Houston, Houston, Do You Read?" and Russ's 
> "When It Changed."

Ziggurat reminded me very much of "Houston, Houston."  It seems almost like 
a reversal of that story, with female astronauts coming into the past on 
Earth, the primitive male killing most of them, and a "happy" ending where 
the female is left to the mercies of the man.  It's interesting that Wolfe 
uses the Tiptree reference in the previous story, not in this one, which 
recalled her much more.

Narwhal

------------------------------------------------------------------------------