{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2133", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2133, "subject": "Wolfe and Calvino", "messages": 7, "voices": 6, "first": "2000-02-22T10:04:54+00:00", "last": "2000-02-23T21:57:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Thomas Jeenicke", "address": "thomas_jeenicke at public.uni-hamburg.de" }, "date": "2000-02-22T13:21:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga suggested in the Whorl-list (message dated 18 Feb 20:06:28) that Wolfe could have read Italo Calvino. He might have, but I don't see much evidence. I think (though maybe I don't know Calvino good enoug) that memory per se is not a theme for Calvino, at least not a main theme. Nearest (but still quite different) to Wolfe, in my opinion, seems to be Calvino's labyrinthian novel \"Se una notte d' inverno un viaggiatore\" (first published 1979 - I don't know if there's an english translation, if so, the title must be something like \"When in a night of winter a traveller\"), which ends in a library (Borges!).\nThe whole topic Wolfe-Borges-Calvino raises one question in me: Is Wolfe a \"postmodern\" writer? - If that is actually a usefull literary categorie (I'm not sure).\n\nThomas" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2000-02-22T10:04:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"If On a Winter's Night a Traveler\" was translated into English by William\nWeaver, who also does Eco's translations. It's my favorite Calvino book--\nprobably because it's a tribute to the act of reading. If I recall, a genre\nscience fiction pastiche is, unfortunately, not among the half-begun books\nthat it contains.\n\nThe list archives contain considerable discussion of whether Wolfe is a\npost-modernist, etc. I would say he's more accurately described as a \nmodernist.\n\n\n\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nicholas Gevers", "address": "vermoulian at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2000-02-22T11:48:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just a small note on the Wolfe/Calvino issue: IN\nGREEN'S JUNGLES, which I'll shortly start reading,\nseems to have a strong Italianate bias--evidence\nperhaps of Calvino's influence. I'll be on the lookout\nfor signs of that." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jesper Svedberg", "address": "jesper.svedberg at mailbox.swipnet.se" }, "date": "2000-02-23T18:35:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Thomas Jeenicke\" \nSubject: Wolfe and Calvino\nDate: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:21:15 +0100\n\nAlga suggested in the Whorl-list (message dated 18 Feb 20:06:28) that > Wolfe could have read Italo Calvino. He might have, but I don't see much > evidence. I think (though maybe I don't know Calvino good enoug) that > memory per se is not a theme for Calvino, at least not a main theme. > Nearest (but still quite different) to Wolfe, in my opinion, seems to be > Calvino's labyrinthian novel \"Se una notte d' inverno un viaggiatore\" > (first published 1979 - I don't know if there's an english translation, > if so, the title must be something like \"When in a night of winter a > traveller\"), which ends in a library (Borges!).\nThe whole topic Wolfe-Borges-Calvino raises one question in me: Is Wolfe > a \"postmodern\" writer? - If that is actually a usefull literary > categorie (I'm not sure)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The only thing I've read by Calvino is _The Tree Baron_ (title? the\noriginal was\n_Il Barone Rapante_ anyway) and the first few pages of _Invisible\nCities_. I'd say\nthat Wolfe has more in common with Calvino stylewise than contentwise,\nthe other\nsimilarity would be that they are both intelligent authors who write\nintelectual\nnovels. Although, after taking a quick look at _Invisible Cities_ I\ncan't help\nwondering if Wolfe has read Calvino, _IC_ had the same sense of wonder\nthat I got\nfrom reading TBotNS, albeit it seemed even more obscure.\n\n\n // Jesper Svedberg" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Urash, Tom", "address": "turash at firstam.com" }, "date": "2000-02-23T12:58:18+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Re: Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The only thing I've read by Calvino is _The Tree Baron_ (title? the\noriginal was\n_Il Barone Rapante_ anyway) and the first few pages of _Invisible\nCities_. I'd say\nthat Wolfe has more in common with Calvino stylewise than contentwise,\nthe other\nsimilarity would be that they are both intelligent authors who write\nintelectual\nnovels. Although, after taking a quick look at _Invisible Cities_ I\ncan't help\nwondering if Wolfe has read Calvino, _IC_ had the same sense of wonder\nthat I got\nfrom reading TBotNS, albeit it seemed even more obscure." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\t The English edition I have is titled \"The Baron in the Trees\". \n\t \n\t...Tom " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2000-02-23T21:36:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree with our new Danish member (welcome, Thomas, and please turn off that Rich Text feature for this list) that the Calvino influence, if any, is not so evident. Except for my half-joke that Pajarocu is an Invisible City, which it really is. Alex is (I think) right; IOAWNAT doesn't have any out-and-out sf refs or jokes in it (I've never thought of Italians, especially of his generation, as being into it)--still, it's the sort of book that I think might attract Wolfe. It was only a half-joke and those of us who are really conversant with Calvino (I have read some, even mini-reviewed one book, but I'm not) might think about this.\n\nI also would call Wolfe a modernist rather than a post-modernist, except for some experimentation in a few of the stories (and no, I can't cite them off the top of my head). This could lead us into a labyrinth (hey, cool!).\n\n-alga\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2000-02-23T21:57:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wolfe and Calvino", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cosmicomics is (sort of) science fiction, although definitely not\n science fiction.\n\n\n\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce" } ] } ] }