{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2227", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2227, "subject": "credit Adam, then argue", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2000-05-02T13:59:31+00:00", "last": "2000-05-02T17:32:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at sirius.com" }, "date": "2000-05-02T13:59:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) credit Adam, then argue", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga started it, Nutria compounded it:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Mantis:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I don't think there are meant to be logical explanations for all these\nthings. At any rate, that seems to be the meaning of Mrs. Underhill's\nspeech to Eigenblick in \"Give Way, Give Way\" (Book Six, Chap. Five), the\ngist of it is that there are no explanations, it's just the way the\nworld is." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This was actually =Adam= who wrote that (and we thank him for using those\ncitations all over the place).\n\nAdam also argues against my numerology/cycles by saying that the number of\nfairies is 52 =now=, that it was more before; thus the magic number\n=cannot= be 52. Well, sure, you can believe that . . . but I think there\nare two things: first, the magic number for the Alice & Co. is 52, or\nthere-abouts (since after all that is the number that go through and take\nup their stations); there is no guarantee that the previous (or \"old\")\nmagic number was 52.\n\nWhich is why I brought up Tarot before. As alga mentioned long time past,\nthe tarot deck varies in number of cards (there isn't really a \"standard\"\nexcept by more or less arbitrary), but it is alway much more than 52. The\n52 deck, aka the deck of standard playing cards, forms the basis for the\nJCdeck (not to be confused with \"the Crowley Tarot\"!!) as it appears in THE\nDEEP and LITTLE, BIG.\n\nSo you see where I'm heading with this: the old \"real\" Tarot reflects the\nold order of fairies. The shifting of numbers, arranged from high to low\nas if a sequence across time, reflects their real dying off. Through the\nhistory of the real Tarot deck, from many cards to fewer, we see reflected\nthe hidden history of the fairies.\n\n(Over-reading? Who, me?)\n\nThe Alice family was given their freakishly short deck (only 52 cards) a\nfew generations prior to the big transition. The fairies, their plan; the\nhumans, \"learn it, live it, love it.\"\n\nNutria,\n\nQuestions of heaven and hell. Granted, there is ambiguity as to whether\nthe formerly human are evolving upward toward angel status or devolving\ndownward into nature idols. This is a point you've made and I agree with\nit.\n\nThat whatever-it-is that happens to Alice & Co. isn't simply death seems to\nbe the case, because if so, then Smoky would show up at the party, since we\nknow he just died. Maybe. That is, there is some sort of division between\nSmoky and the group. So you (Nutria) suppose that he has gone to heaven,\nwhile the group (Alice & Co., not alga & friends) takes a detour through\nhell.\n\nPossible. But you know how JC keeps turning things over, examining things\nin other works: don't forget \"Her Bounty to the Dead\" (in ANTIQUITIES).\nHere the afterlife situation is basically this (iirc): there is only so\nmuch room in heaven, so if you'd rather go into non-being, that's fine. Or\n\"everybody gets the afterlife they want and feel they deserve\" kind of a\nthing.\n\nSo, in the JC universe, there are many options as to \"where Smoky goes when\nhe dies.\"\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2000-05-02T17:32:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) credit Adam, then argue", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 01:59 PM 5/2/00 -0700, Mantis wrote:\nNutria,\n\nQuestions of heaven and hell. Granted, there is ambiguity as to whether\nthe formerly human are evolving upward toward angel status or devolving\ndownward into nature idols. This is a point you've made and I agree with\nit.\n\nThat whatever-it-is that happens to Alice & Co. isn't simply death seems to\nbe the case, because if so, then Smoky would show up at the party, since we\nknow he just died. Maybe. That is, there is some sort of division between\nSmoky and the group. So you (Nutria) suppose that he has gone to heaven,\nwhile the group (Alice & Co., not alga & friends) takes a detour through\nhell." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tSorry I was not more clear. I don't think Alice etal. really died, but\nthat their transition is parallel to Smoky's death. \"heaven and hell\" are\nprobably too loaded as terms to describe the two avenues. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Possible. But you know how JC keeps turning things over, examining things\nin other works: don't forget \"Her Bounty to the Dead\" (in ANTIQUITIES)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tHow could I forget it? I cannot find this book, and I've never read this\nstory. Finding JC stuff, outside the novels, is a labor of hercules. I\ndon't care to pay $100 for a copy. Maybe I'll get one on interlibrary loan\nand PHOTOCOPY IT! Yeah. That's what I'll do. And then they can SUE me.\n\t(Anybody want a pirated photocopy of Carmichael Smith's *Atomsk*?)\n\nNutricious" } ] } ] }