{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2245", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2245, "subject": "Little, Big: 52; Eigenblick", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2000-05-08T09:32:08+00:00", "last": "2000-05-12T09:16:09+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-05-08T09:32:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Little, Big: 52; Eigenblick", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "alga wrote:\nCan someone supply page (or chapter) numbers for 52 fairies, 52\nDrinkwater kin and 52 cards? Thanks." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can only cite page numbers for the original 1981 Bantam trade\npaperback. But I'll do that, along with chapters. 52 cards: \"The Least\nTrumps,\" II, 3, p. 156; confirmed in \"Fifty-Two,\" VI, 1, pp. 432-33. 52\nfairies: \"A Parliament\" VI, 2, p. 459.\n\nThe other 52 does not, strictly speaking, refer to the Drinkwater kin,\nbut to the guests at the wedding party/wake. This doesn't include\nGrandfather Trout, and it does include Eigenblick; it's not clear\nwhether it includes Fred or Alice. And it's not stated explicitly, or\neven implied conclusively: Sophie tries to count the guests, but fails,\nand then thinks \"anyway she didn't need to count in order to know how\nmany were here.\" (\"She's Here, She's Near,\" VI, 5, p. 536.) Given the\nimportance of the number 52, this probably means that there are 52\nguests (or at least Sophie thinks there are), but you could put another\nconstruction on it.\n\nThere's another 52 too, which hasn't been mentioned so far: 52 henchmen\nof Russell Eigenblick transformed into playing cards (\"Fifty-two\nPickup,\" VI, 4, p. 510). This number doesn't include Eigenblick\nhimself, who is turned into the Fool.\n\nSpeaking of Eigenblick, a long time ago (well, it seems that way) alga\nasked if somebody could justify the presence of the Eigenblick subplot. \nIt's not my favorite part of the book either, and Eigenblick's speech is\nthe one passage in the book which rings false to me. Still, the subplot\ndoes have the function of showing just how ruthless the fairies are. As\nfor any other functions, this is the best I can come up with: when we\nfirst hear of Eigenblick, he seems to be the activist counterpart of the\nDrinkwaters, fighting against the Noisy Bridge Rod and Gun Club to\nre-enchant the world. But Eigenblick proves to be an insane tyrant who\nbrings disaster to the whole nation (except the Drinkwaters). The moral\nis either that politics is no good (a very seventies conclusion); or\nthat any sort of action to bring the fairies closer is wrong, and the\nonly acceptable course is to wait passively like the Drinkwaters do\n(somewhat like the \"negative Taoism\" mantis found in GWoT); or that\nlonging for enchantment is wrong in itself (as Nutria would argue). You\npays your money and you takes your choice. I think the first two are\ndefinitely there, and possibly intimations of the third as well.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2000-05-10T16:20:30+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Little, Big: 52; Eigenblick", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 09:32 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:\n\nThere's another 52 too, which hasn't been mentioned so far: 52 henchmen\nof Russell Eigenblick transformed into playing cards (\"Fifty-two\nPickup,\" VI, 4, p. 510). This number doesn't include Eigenblick\nhimself, who is turned into the Fool." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tIn any pantheistic construction of reality, you have yin and yang,\npositive and negative, good and evil -- somehow. Maybe there are \"two\"\ndecks of 52 cards, one positive and one negative. Fairies and anti-fairies.\nDemons and gods. Those moving out of the Christian/Humanist world move both\nways or either way. Make sense?\n\tIn which case, the \"war\" is not merely the red-herring I originally\nthought. The negative 52 are \"winter\" and the positive 52 are \"summer.\" And\nthey are involved in an eternal \"war.\" \n\tAs to the \"cyclical\" business: I submit that it will depend on a closer\ndescription of what is actually cyclical. The allusions to the passage of\nthe seasons implies a cycle. The people of \"our\" world wind up with a\nlegend that someday Eigenblick will return. That implies to me that this\nTale will recur, and that Daily Alice & Co. will in time recruit new\nfuture-fairies to replace them, and will move farther \"within.\" \n\nNutricious" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-05-12T09:16:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Little, Big: 52; Eigenblick", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nutria wrote:\n\nMaybe there are \"two\"\ndecks of 52 cards, one positive and one negative. Fairies and anti-fairies.\nDemons and gods. Those moving out of the Christian/Humanist world move both\nways or either way. Make sense?\n In which case, the \"war\" is not merely the red-herring I originally\nthought. The negative 52 are \"winter\" and the positive 52 are \"summer.\" And\nthey are involved in an eternal \"war.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Making Eigenblick's henchmen the positive deck? But Eigenblick regards\nhimself as an ally of the fairies, though they cheat him in the end. \nAnd Eigenblick and the fairies collaborate to bring about \"winter.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The people of \"our\" world wind up with a\nlegend that someday Eigenblick will return." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But as Ariel points out, there have been many legends of dead leaders\nsomeday returning; most are not true. Moreover, Barbarossa [Eigenblick]\nreally had been put to sleep for a thousand years, having been \"stored\nup\" by the fairies so that he could return. But Eigenblick is ensconced\nas king in the fairy country, and (at least as I see it) unlikely to\nreturn.\n\n--Adam" } ] } ] }