{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/226",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 226,
    "subject": "Holly Hollander's novel",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1997-10-10T16:26:47+00:00",
    "last": "1997-10-10T16:36:54+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0004-0336@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Derek Bell",
        "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie"
      },
      "date": "1997-10-10T16:26:47+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Holly Hollander's novel",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tWarning, spoilers ahead!!\n\n\n\f\n\tLast warning!\n\f\n\n\tDisclaimer, this is from memory, so take it with a few\nshovelfuls of sal if you like.\n\nIn message <199710091915.MAA29588 at lists1.best.com>, Sgt. Rock writes:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I just finished PANDORA, by HOLLY HOLLANDER. This is either the\nsimplest, most straight-forward thing Wolfe has written, or I must have\nmissed a bunch of stuff. In fact, if it's a conventional \"whodunnit\" as\nit appears to be on the surface, then it's fairly pedestrian--I guessed\nthe conclusion about halfway through. I was expecting to be confuted by\na typically twisted Wolfean ending..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tOK, my opinion is it is an allegory about love: consider the\nvarious relationships in the story: Holly's granparents; Holly's parents;\nHolly's mother and her lover; Holly and Alladin Blue. Each\nrelationship is based on on different kinds of love, at least from the\nmen's side. Holly's grandfather is jealous and possessive, her father\nloves her mother, though he is resigned about her being unfaithful and\nis even willing to take the blame for the bombing to prevent his wife\nbeing jailed. Holly's mother and her lover recognise in each other\nthat they are similar: they are both very selfish people.\n\n\tI have a problem describing Holly and Alladin's relationship;\nAlladin's character seems strongly outlined by the incident where his\nleg was broken - his motives are noble, though he, like anyone else,\ncan only do so much before he was intimidated into breaking the law.\n(In religious terms, I supposed it was his \"fall from grace\".)\nHolly's character didn't convince me and I find it hard to describe\nher, other than she clearly loved her father, wanted to clear his name\nand discover the real bomber. Maybe it's just the amount of time\nthat's elapsed since I read it.\n\n\tTercel"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0004-0337@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Derek Bell",
        "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie"
      },
      "date": "1997-10-10T16:36:54+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Holly Hollander's novel",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0004-0336@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "In message <199710092129.OAA10832 at lists1.best.com>, Nutria writes:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "My own guess is that HH is a \"juvenile,\" like *The Devil in a Forest.* \nSo,perhaps we should not look for anything too deep.\nThere is a kind of semi-allegorical structure to the tale --\nthe kind of thing Wolfe often does (like \"The Man in the Pepper\nMill\"). Holly's old family is completely breaking down, and she finds\na new family, in a house on the edge of town, presided over by a\n\"resurrected\" criminal who specializes in crime (sin). With a foot\nwound, of course."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tIt struck me that Wolfe had infantile paralysis, otherwise\nknown as poliomyelitis. I think one common symptom is paralysis of the\nlegs; perhaps that's why Wolfe chooses this religious symbol so often\n- it relates to his own life."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "And, there are three (count'em three) men in the new house on the edge \nof town that becomes Holly's new home. Let's see. One of them is a cook, so he\nwould be the Holy Spirit; and note his name: Muddy Brooks."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\tSay, did he play electric guitar? :-) This book's got loads of\nChicago references! I wouldn't put it past Wolfe to deliberately\nchoose a character to have many types of references/connotations:\ne.g. both religious and Chicago-related.\n\n\tFor instance, \"Muddy Brooks\" sounds like a thinly disguised\nvariation of \"Muddy Waters\". And he lives in this house of Blue's!\n\n\tTercel, humming \"Mannish Boy\""
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}