{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2271",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2271,
    "subject": "Digest urth.v029.n007",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2000-05-25T20:16:56+00:00",
    "last": "2000-05-26T08:14:53+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0029-0039@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dave Lebling",
        "address": "dlebling at shore.net"
      },
      "date": "2000-05-25T20:16:56+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v029.n007",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "alga wrote:\nI think we need to\nthink about where Vodalus stands with regard to Ascianism--is he really\na heartfelt ally, or just taking advantage of the fire-power?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Adam Stephanides wrote:\nI think that the contrast between Urth returning to the stars through its\nown efforts (as Vodalus advocates), and Urth's relying on the help and\nguidance of the Hierodules--and, by analogy, between two different\ntheories of salvation--is key to the book"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The Autarchy and the Ascians are solutions to the same problem. That is, the\npeople of Urth went to the stars, brought war and destruction, and were\nchastised by the placement of the black hole in the Sun.  The cause is the\ninborn nature of humanity (\"original sin,\" perhaps?).  Both the Commonwealth\nand Ascia are attempting to keep mankind away from the stars until it is\n\"perfected\" or \"cured\" or \"saved\" (or whatever).  Vodalus clearly rejects\nthis point of view, proposing to recover Urth's empire, presumably with him\nat the head of it.\n\nThis is all pretty explicitly in the book, aside from whether the black hole\nwas placed deliberately or it's just a funny coincidence.  We are told all\nthis by someone (the old Autarch, I _think_) lecturing Sev, in _Citadel_.\nIt starts with an explanation of why the roads are closed.\n\nI refer again to C. S. Lewis's position, explicated somewhat in _Out of the\nSilent Planet_ et seq., that space travel (or possibly only space\ncolonization) and immortality are sins.  This is a thread not far below the\nsurface in much of _New Sun_ and even in other works by Wolfe.\n\n       -- Dave Lebling\n          (aka vizcacha)"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0029-0040@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Michael Straight",
        "address": "straight at email.unc.edu"
      },
      "date": "2000-05-26T08:14:53+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v029.n007",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0029-0039@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Thu, 25 May 2000, Dave Lebling wrote:\nI refer again to C. S. Lewis's position, explicated somewhat in _Out of the\nSilent Planet_ et seq., that space travel (or possibly only space\ncolonization) and immortality are sins.  This is a thread not far below the\nsurface in much of _New Sun_ and even in other works by Wolfe."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "It's a fine point, but he didn't think space travel and immortality are\nthemselves sins, rather they are a bad idea because they would allow sin\nto grow beyond it's current bounds of time (a lifetime) and space (Earth).\n\n-Rostrum"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}