{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2389", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2389, "subject": "And When They Appear", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2000-09-20T11:50:08+00:00", "last": "2000-09-21T20:05:54+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-09-20T11:50:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And When They Appear", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I finally got around to reading STRANGE TRAVELLERS, though I'd read a\nnumber of the stories in it before. On a first reading, I'd say the\nmajor one I'd missed is \"And When They Appear.\" This is one of Wolfe's\ngrimmest stories (which is saying a lot), made more powerful by the\nmatter-of-fact narration and by the deceptive \"Christmas story\"\natmosphere of the first half. (It just struck me that this first half\nreads a lot like a Bradbury pastiche.) It's also one of the most\neffective uses of a child narrator by anyone that I've read. In some\nways the story is like a reprise of \"The Death of Doctor Island,\" with a\nboy protagonist in an enclosed setting controlled by an AI, but the new\nstory stands on its own.\n\nAnybody else have any thoughts on it? (Forgive me if I've been\nredundant; I don't recall anything being said about it during the\nSTRANGE TRAVELLERS discussion, but I can't download that volume of the\narchives onto my computer.)\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Westlake", "address": "peter at harlequin.co.uk" }, "date": "2000-09-20T16:32:42+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) And When They Appear", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:50 2000-09-20 -0700, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nAnybody else have any thoughts on it? (Forgive me if I've been\nredundant; I don't recall anything being said about it during the\nSTRANGE TRAVELLERS discussion, but I can't download that volume of the\narchives onto my computer.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tony Ellis recently offered the comforting observation that Mouse,\ninoperative but still containing a deadly blade, is under Sherby's\npillow at the end. Look for \"The mirror crack'd\" in the most recent\narchives for that article and James Jordan's follow-up.\n\nPeter." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-09-20T15:25:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) And When They Appear", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Peter Westlake wrote:\n\nTony Ellis recently offered the comforting observation that Mouse,\ninoperative but still containing a deadly blade, is under Sherby's\npillow at the end." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not comforted, since he's already been molested (Charlie tells him\n\"'We'll take off our clothes and have some fun, Chris. _Then_ we'll go\nto bed.'\" (195, emphasis mine)) and there's no indication that he knows\nthe blade is there (the owl-slicing is \"the first time [the blade] had\nbeen used since Mouse had been made\" (170) and Sherby doesn't see it). \nBesides, the most horrific moment is not the molestation, but Sherby's\nthrowing a rock at Smoky." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Look for \"The mirror crack'd\" in the most recent\narchives for that article and James Jordan's follow-up." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for pointing this out; I'd forgotten about it. Now that I've\nread the story, I have a couple of comments.\n\nOn Tony Ellis's point about hiding in the freezer: yeah, that had\nniggled at me. We're told explicitly that Sherby can't open the door by\nhimself (170); Eddi says that House will open the door when it's safe,\nbut if House is destroyed, how can it (of course, the AI core might\nsurvive, but it might not, and apparently it doesn't)? And even Eddi\n(House) thinks there's a good chance of Sherby freezing to death before\nbeing rescued: the best he can say is \"If you snuggle up with Smoky, you\nmight stay alive until they leave.\" (188) It looks like Sherby's\nrefusal to take House's advice saved his life, although it wasn't based\non any rational calculation.\n\nOn Jim Jordan's point that by leaving House, Sherby will be able to meet\nJesus (or Yeshua, as he's called in the story): but according to Eddi,\nthe real Yeshua is in House too (185).\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2000-09-21T20:05:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And When They Appear", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From Adam:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I finally got around to reading STRANGE TRAVELLERS, though I'd read a\nnumber of the stories in it before. On a first reading, I'd say the\nmajor one I'd missed is \"And When They Appear.\" This is one of\nWolfe's\ngrimmest stories (which is saying a lot), made more powerful by the\nmatter-of-fact narration and by the deceptive \"Christmas story\"\natmosphere of the first half. (It just struck me that this first half\nreads a lot like a Bradbury pastiche.) It's also one of the most\neffective uses of a child narrator by anyone that I've read. In some\nways the story is like a reprise of \"The Death of Doctor Island,\" with\na\nboy protagonist in an enclosed setting controlled by an AI, but the\nnew\nstory stands on its own." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think it's a quarter as good as TDoDI. It's too disjointed; the\ngothic elements don't come together. Mouse and Owl, Smoky, the parents\nin the freezer, Corporal Charlie, the folklore figures, the gratuitous\nJesus, the angry mob--why?. Even the gnomic sentence at the end: \"'I\ndon't like it,' he said [regarding Christmas], but as soon as he said\nit, he knew it was not true.\" This is, we are led to believe, is after\nCorporal Charlie has had his way with Sherby. Messy stories irritate me.\nFrom Bradbury too, who, in later work, epitomizes mess." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Besides, the most horrific moment is not the molestation, but Sherby's\nthrowing a rock at Smoky." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Me too, as it happens. But more annoying is that Smoky is never used\nproperly in the story. He and Cpl. Charlie are the only \"real\" figures,\nand they're virtually thrown away." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "While I'm thinking of it: the man who takes Sherby is referred to\nseveral times as \"Corporal Charlie\" (as he instructs Sherby) but once\nas\n\"Uncle Charlie.\" Is this last a typo?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Given what I feel to be the general carelessness throughout, I'd say\nyes.\n\n-alga" } ] } ] }