{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2460",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2460,
    "subject": "Some Day They'll Want Us",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2000-11-13T22:35:34+00:00",
    "last": "2000-11-14T14:19:05+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0117@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "2000-11-13T22:35:34+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Some Day They'll Want Us",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": ". I know that many people"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "find the last line of the first part very disturbing: I truly\ndo not understand _why\n\n--Blattid"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hmmm.\n    Well, for me at least, this was the one thing that was crystal clear the\nfirst time I read it. (So, that makes me suspicious!!!)\n    But, FWIW, I think Wolfe intends us to link the line of clones with the\n\"antichrist,\" in contrast to David (note the name and its Biblical\nassociations), who is not a clone, and who therefore \"makes progress.\" The\nclones don't. They just repeat, generation after generation. They have no\ntrue eschaton, because they reject heterogeneity. (A profound thought, I\nsubmit.)\n    The live at a Whorehouse (standard Biblical/Christian symbol for a false\nchurch) at 666 (!) Street of the Counterfeit.\n    So, while the world/universe is not yet ready to receive the\n\"antichrist,\" someday it will be! That is what I took to be the intended\nchilling ending.\n    Also, I took it that \"heterogeneity\" is a major theme in the whole\ntri-novella \"novel.\" The tyrants, oppressive slavers, of No. 5's planet are\nintent on conquering and wiping out the abos, instead of joining with them\nin a new community. (Shades of what the Short Sun books seem to be about:\naccepting the inhumi!) Meanwhile, to survive, the abos have to give up their\nown ways and try to pass as human. All of this is culturally stifling and\ndestructive.\n    FWIW.\n\nNutria"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0121@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Tony Ellis",
        "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2000-11-14T14:19:05+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: Some Day They’ll Want Us",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0030-0117@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Or if you want a more secular reading, from someone who doesn’t believe\n5HC is intended as a Christian allegory in the first place… :-)\n\n…If I was to call the last line “disturbing”, it would be because it\nconfirms what the previous paragraphs have already hinted at: that\nNumber 5 has become his own father. The unique, intelligent young man,\nwhose life we have for a little while lived, has ceased to exist. Worse\nstill, he has become the thing he hates. Loss of the Self is, perhaps,\nthe ultimate horror."
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Tony Ellis\nOn-line Editor, PC Format magazine\n01225 442244 x2349\nhttp://www.pcformat.co.uk"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}