{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2576", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2576, "subject": "Lune & Urth", "messages": 6, "voices": 3, "first": "2001-03-03T08:01:45+00:00", "last": "2001-03-08T23:03:50+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David DiGiacomo", "address": "dd at adobe.com" }, "date": "2001-03-03T08:01:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Thinking further on the Urth-Lune relationship has led me to wonder if\nthere is any evidence that Blue and Green from the Long/Short Sun books\ncould actually be Urth and Lune, the Whorl having returned to its origin\nin Planet Of The Apes fashion? Either in the Ushas period, or possibly\nhaving arrived in some pre-Typhon era?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This has been discussed on the Whorl list. It doesn't really hold up.\nHow could they travel to Urth if they were already there? Also, the\ngravity on Green seems similar to that of Blue." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Has anyone found mention of how Lune was terraformed? Some giant,\nlunar-sized Bracelet of Air? It does seem odd that Lune remains green\nwhile the vegetation on Urth is dying." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What seems odd to me is that the Old Sun is so obviously dim and red, but\nconditions on Urth are more or less normal. I thought that even a change\nin the Sun's output too small to notice by eye would lead to catastrophic\nchanges on Earth/Urth.\n\nAnd while we're at it... is the White Fountain inside the Old Sun,\norbiting Urth, or just hanging around?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2001-03-04T18:01:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: dd at Adobe.COM (David DiGiacomo)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Thinking further on the Urth-Lune relationship has led me to wonder if\nthere is any evidence that Blue and Green from the Long/Short Sun books\ncould actually be Urth and Lune, the Whorl having returned to its origin\nin Planet Of The Apes fashion? Either in the Ushas period, or possibly\nhaving arrived in some pre-Typhon era?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This has been discussed on the Whorl list. It doesn't really hold up.\nHow could they travel to Urth if they were already there? Also, the\ngravity on Green seems similar to that of Blue." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tUrth-normal gravity is would be expected if Lune's atmosphere was to be\nretained without some sort of container. The current moon's gravity is\nnot strong enough to retain air. BOTNS includes several examples of\ngravity-altering technology, and a force powerful enough to move the\nmoon from today's 250,000 miles distance to 150,000 in the Autarchy\ncould also add extra mass to it, increasing gravity \"naturally.\"\n\tAs for how the Whorl can leave Urth and travel to Urth, it could be a\ncosmic accident like in Planet Of The Apes (unlikely), or it could be a\nplot by the duplicitous Typhon. Typhon could have planned the Whorl as a\ncontingency to restore his dynasty if were to have been deposed before\nit's arrival at the end of its circular course. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Has anyone found mention of how Lune was terraformed? Some giant,\nlunar-sized Bracelet of Air? It does seem odd that Lune remains green\nwhile the vegetation on Urth is dying." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What seems odd to me is that the Old Sun is so obviously dim and red, but\nconditions on Urth are more or less normal. I thought that even a change\nin the Sun's output too small to notice by eye would lead to catastrophic\nchanges on Earth/Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tThere may well have been, but the various other world-altering changes\nmay have countered some of the effect and left the Commonwealth with no\nobvious differences that show in the text. There are so many oddities\nthat Severian does not remark upon directly but only emerge by close\nreading that any number of others could be accommodated. \n\tFor example, crop yields could be horribly low, vitamin deficiencies\nrampant, etc. but Sev does not mention them since from his POV that's\nthe way things are. The vastly dwindling number of apprentices near his\nage might be a clue, though." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And while we're at it... is the White Fountain inside the Old Sun,\norbiting Urth, or just hanging around?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tIt's my opinion that it likely plunged into the sun, revitalizing it\nbefore it and the black beans cancel out. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson\nHow Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789\n\"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy.\" -Cpt Law" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk" }, "date": "2001-03-06T13:47:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) re: Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:\n It's my opinion that it likely plunged into the sun, revitalizing it\nbefore it and the black beans cancel out." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pedant that I am, I have to point out that the black beans don't equate\nto the black hole gnawing away at the sun. The story of the black beans\nis the story of how Erebus and co. came to Urth." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tony Ellis\nOn-line Editor, PC Format magazine\n01225 442244 x2349\nhttp://www.pcformat.co.uk" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2001-03-07T18:08:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) re: Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Tony Ellis\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " It's my opinion that it likely plunged into the sun, revitalizing it\nbefore it and the black beans cancel out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedant that I am, I have to point out that the black beans don't equate\nto the black hole gnawing away at the sun. The story of the black beans\nis the story of how Erebus and co. came to Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tThen again, can we be sure that's all they represent? Who is\nresponsible for putting the black hole in the sun?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson\nHow Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789\n\"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy.\" -Cpt Law" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2001-03-07T18:08:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) re: Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Tony Ellis\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " It's my opinion that it likely plunged into the sun, revitalizing it\nbefore it and the black beans cancel out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedant that I am, I have to point out that the black beans don't equate\nto the black hole gnawing away at the sun. The story of the black beans\nis the story of how Erebus and co. came to Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tThen again, can we be sure that's all they represent? Who is\nresponsible for putting the black hole in the sun?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson\nHow Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789\n\"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy.\" -Cpt Law" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2001-03-08T23:03:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Lune & Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Jeff Wilson " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"Tony Ellis\" \nJeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " It's my opinion that it likely plunged into the sun, revitalizing it\nbefore it and the black beans cancel out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Pedant that I am, I have to point out that the black beans don't equate\nto the black hole gnawing away at the sun. The story of the black beans\nis the story of how Erebus and co. came to Urth." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Then again, can we be sure that's all they represent? Who is\nresponsible for putting the black hole in the sun?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tMore thinking reveals what might be a sort of inverted literary\nallusion in the black beans/black hole matter. (I've pointed out\nnumerous\nexamples of inverted parallels and analogies in GW's work in times\nprevious to the Wolfe fans on GEnie.) In a reversal of the Jack and the \nBeanstalk story, the black beans/hole grow a vinculum not up into the \nclouds, but \"down\" to the Abbadon universe, allowing the bad creatures \nthere to make off with the earth's gold, i.e. the energy output required\nfor the sun to show its natural yellow color when warming the earth. I\nsuppose that the other treasures that Jack makes off with in the\noriginal\ntale could be the other lost assets of the earth, like the supposed\nshortage of metal, but I haven't had to time to take it much farther, \nif I haven't stretched the comparison too far already." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson\nHow Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789\n\"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy.\" -Cpt Law" } ] } ] }