{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2588", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2588, "subject": "Phillip Pullman", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2001-04-18T10:33:26+00:00", "last": "2001-04-25T10:33:17+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-04-18T10:33:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Phillip Pullman", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is Phillip Pullman that children's-book writer. The Golden\nSomethingorother? I've noticed his name and thought I might look into\nhim, maybe at the library. What are the names of the books in the\ntrilogy? (Too lazy to consult Amazon.)\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mark millman", "address": "millman at us.ncipher.com" }, "date": "2001-04-18T11:12:16+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Phillip Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "alga,\n\nYou're thinking of the right person; his series is titled \nHis Dark Materials, and comprises three volumes:\n_The Golden Compass_; _The Subtle Knife_; and \n_The Amber Spyglass_.\n\nIt's been strongly recommended to me by my book-\nseller and by other friends, though not with the . . . \nfervor . . . that Harry Potter seems to engender.\n\nMark Millman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:33 AM 18-04-01 -0400, you wrote:\nIs Phillip Pullman that children's-book \nwriter. The Golden Somethingorother? \nI've noticed his name and thought I \nmight look into him, maybe at the li-\nbrary. What are the names of the books \nin the trilogy? (Too lazy to consult \nAmazon.)\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "John-Paul Wellcoat", "address": "john-paul.wellcoat at omgroup.com" }, "date": "2001-04-18T15:49:22+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Phillip Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was taken aback when I learnt the Dark Material trilogy was classed as\nchildrens fiction.\nI would recommend it heartily. (note. the third book is not all it could have\nbeen)\nI haven't read much of Harry Potter, but what i did read didn't come close to\nthe Dark Material trilogy.\nHowever, it may be I just dislike the whole glamourisation of one author and her\nwork.\n\nJust thought I say something. I hate being classified as a lurker.\n\nJP\n\n\n\n\n|--------+------------------------>\n| | mark millman |\n| | |\n| | |\n| | 18/04/01 16:12|\n| | Please respond|\n| | to urth |\n| | |\n|--------+------------------------>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------|\n | |\n | To: urth at lists1.ba.best.com |\n | cc: (bcc: John-Paul Wellcoat/OMT/OMGROUP) |\n | Subject: Re: (urth) Phillip Pullman |\n----------------------------------------------------------------|" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "alga,\n\nYou're thinking of the right person; his series is titled\nHis Dark Materials, and comprises three volumes:\n_The Golden Compass_; _The Subtle Knife_; and\n_The Amber Spyglass_.\n\nIt's been strongly recommended to me by my book-\nseller and by other friends, though not with the . . .\nfervor . . . that Harry Potter seems to engender.\n\nMark Millman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:33 AM 18-04-01 -0400, you wrote:\nIs Phillip Pullman that children's-book\nwriter. The Golden Somethingorother?\nI've noticed his name and thought I\nmight look into him, maybe at the li-\nbrary. What are the names of the books\nin the trilogy? (Too lazy to consult\nAmazon.)\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2001-04-18T12:33:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Phillip Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have read them. First, let me say that I like children's books. (Probably \nbecause I have a childish personality, err... I mean childlike sense of \nwonder.) I am also a big fan of the Harry Potter books, although I don't \nunderstand all the hoopla.\n\nAs far as the Pullman books go, I thought _The Golden Compass_ was \nwonderful. The writing is superb, the characterizations excellent and the \nplot fascinating. Practically the only reason this is considered a \nchildren's book is that the protagonist is a eleven-year-old girl. In \nnearly every other way, this book is on an adult level.\n\n_The Subtle Knife_ is just as good, but it leaves you with an uneasy \nfeeling that Pullman will not be able to pull off a satisfying conclusion. \nAnd he does not. In spades.\n\nIn _The Amber Spyglass_ the whole works just blows up in your face. The \nplot clanks; endless needless complications and characters are introduced. \nThe characters, at least some of them, including major ones, start acting \nunlike themselves. And Pullman evidently regards the success of the first \ntwo volumes in the series to be a license to turns parts of the third book \ninto a virulent anti-Catholic screed (thinly disguised but unmistakable). I \nconsider myself agnostic, but this aspect of the book made me \nuncomfortable. A certain anti-church bias is evident in the first two books \nas well, but nothing like what comes out in the third.\n\nIn short, I might recommend this series on the merits of the first two \nvolumes, but only to someone who is not likely to be offended by a very \nanti-Christian message. (This seems to be a real bugaboo for Pullman. He \napparently gave an interview some time ago in which he attacked C. S. Lewis \nand the Narnia books, which garnered him much ill will from their fans.)\n\nWilliam Ansley" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:12 AM 4/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:\nalga,\n\nYou're thinking of the right person; his series is titled\nHis Dark Materials, and comprises three volumes:\n_The Golden Compass_; _The Subtle Knife_; and\n_The Amber Spyglass_.\n\nIt's been strongly recommended to me by my book-\nseller and by other friends, though not with the . . .\nfervor . . . that Harry Potter seems to engender.\n\nMark Millman\n\n\nAt 10:33 AM 18-04-01 -0400, you wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Is Phillip Pullman that children's-book\nwriter. The Golden Somethingorother?\nI've noticed his name and thought I\nmight look into him, maybe at the li-\nbrary. What are the names of the books\nin the trilogy? (Too lazy to consult\nAmazon.)\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2001-04-25T10:33:17+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Phillip Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, William Ansley wrote:\nunlike themselves. And Pullman evidently regards the success of the first \ntwo volumes in the series to be a license to turns parts of the third book \ninto a virulent anti-Catholic screed (thinly disguised but unmistakable). I \nconsider myself agnostic, but this aspect of the book made me \nuncomfortable. A certain anti-church bias is evident in the first two books \nas well, but nothing like what comes out in the third." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interestingly, First Things, a conservative, mostly Roman Catholic journal\nhas a mostly positive review of Pullman's series this month (May issue) by\nDaniel Moloney. He's not so concerned about the anti-church stuff as what\nhe considers the artistic/philosophical failure to create a convincing\nalternative metaphyics. He argues that the parts that work the best\nartistically owe the most to the Christian story/worldview. Not having\nread the books yet, I can't say whether the article makes a good case or\nnot, but it and this discussion have convinced me to give them a try. \nThe article will be available on their website (www.firstthings.com) in a\nfew weeks.\n\n-Rostrum\n\nHere's a quote that may be a spoiler (so beware!):\n\n\"As is, I can fairly characterize His Dark Materials in this fashion:\nimagine if at the beginning of the world, Satan's rebellion had been\nsuccessful, that he had reigned for two thousand years, and that a messiah\nwas necessary to conquer lust and the spirit of domination with innocence,\nhumility, and generous love at great personal cost. Such a story is not\nsubversive of Christianity.\"" } ] } ] }