{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2594", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2594, "subject": "interview clipping on Free Live Free", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2001-04-20T07:08:25+00:00", "last": "2001-04-20T11:13:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2001-04-20T07:08:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) interview clipping on Free Live Free", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Before, I wrote" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As far as I remember from a Wolfe interview, I thought he identified Madame\nSerpentina as pride (she is a haughty wench) and Stubb as Envy. I think \nWolfe\nwaffled a little on identifying Stubb (little man complex seems like envy\nmixed with pride to me)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "to which rostrum replied:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think the key has to be each one's temptation scene. Stubb's seems to\nbe appealing to his desire to be thought smart and essential for an\nimportant case (and appealing to the young woman), thus Pride (Envy\ninvolves resenting someone else who has what you don't). We don't see\nSerpentina's but it seems to have been about giving her a shot at real\nsupernatural power which seems to fit best under Avarice (maybe \"lust for\npower\"? Or do the Seven Deadlies put that under Avarice and reserve Lust\nfor sexual sins? Do all sins fit under one of the Seven?)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here is a quote from an online interview accessible through Paul Duggan's web \nsight.\n\n\"GW: I suppose yeah. Yes. Somewhat the same concern. I tried to give the four \nborders, I tried to give each sort of a besetting sin. Madame Serpantina, it's \npride. Candy, it is gluttony. Stub, I forget now. Osgood Barnes, sexuality of \ncourse.\n\nJJ: And you drew them somewhat from the _________\n\nGW: Envy, envy I think is Stubbs. And I wasn't trying to write allegory. I \nwasn't saying he was a personification of envy. I wanted to show men and women \nwho were actually beset by these sins. \"\n\nI don't mean to beat a dead horse, but once again we need to consider the \nposition of authorial intent: fallacy or definitively influential in \ninterpretation?\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com" }, "date": "2001-04-20T10:32:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) interview clipping on Free Live Free", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:08 AM 4/20/2001 -0700, you wrote:\nHere is a quote from an online interview accessible through Paul Duggan's web\nsight.\n\n\"GW: I suppose yeah. Yes. Somewhat the same concern. I tried to give the four\nborders, I tried to give each sort of a besetting sin. Madame Serpantina, \nit's\npride. Candy, it is gluttony. Stub, I forget now. Osgood Barnes, sexuality of\ncourse.\n\nJJ: And you drew them somewhat from the _________\n\nGW: Envy, envy I think is Stubbs. And I wasn't trying to write allegory. I\nwasn't saying he was a personification of envy. I wanted to show men and \nwomen\nwho were actually beset by these sins. \"\n\nI don't mean to beat a dead horse, but once again we need to consider the\nposition of authorial intent: fallacy or definitively influential in\ninterpretation?\nMarc Aramini" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Gosh, and that was my interview, and I'd forgotten. Well, I'm all \nfor authorial intent, though as you can see, Wolfe was a bit unsure in his \nmemory. But since all these sins overlap one another, I can go either way. \nSerpentina certainly is proud and haughty, and pride is traditionally the \nsin of Satan, so her involvement with witchcraft makes sense. Stubb as \nenvious is a bit harder for me to see, but Wolfe wasn't entirely sure.\n\nJBJordan" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2001-04-20T11:13:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) interview clipping on Free Live Free", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, maa32 wrote:\nGW: Envy, envy I think is Stubbs. And I wasn't trying to write allegory. I \nwasn't saying he was a personification of envy. I wanted to show men and women \nwho were actually beset by these sins. \"\n\nI don't mean to beat a dead horse, but once again we need to consider the \nposition of authorial intent: fallacy or definitively influential in \ninterpretation?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that bit about personification is important. In real life, Envy\nand Pride and Lust and Avarice are often all interrelated, so any attempt\nto create a character beset by Envy is likely to involve the others as\nwell.\n\nSo it's possible Wolfe was thinking of Envy for Stubb and Pride for\nSerpentina, but that he ended up writing scenes where we see more of\nSerpentina's Avarice (or whatever you call her desire for Free's power) \nand Stubb's Pride.\n\nIf you look at what the characters learn from their temptation scene,\nSerpentina is tempted with the offer of power, but she ends up humbled and\ngives that speech about how little humans deserve more power or longer\nlife, thus it corrects her Pride. But I have a harder time seeing the\nEnvy in Stubb's temptation.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }