{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2604", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2604, "subject": "Pullman", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2001-04-26T16:08:30+00:00", "last": "2001-05-30T10:47:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-04-26T16:08:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Pullman", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "vizcacha:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The witches reminded me of the witches in the Kalevala, which is a\nnice change\nfrom the usual witches one meets in fantasy. The concept of the\ndaemons was\nwell-done and well-elaborated, with some unexpected but\nwell-thought-out\ntwists in the later books (e.g., why do _we_ not have daemons?)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, sure! They're Lapland witches! Shakepeare, Milton and Goethe all\nrefer to Lapland witches and I couldn't have been more thrilled to meet\nthem, and so wonderfully described. A couple of the very best Xena eps\nhave her running up against a Northern shamaness/witch. (I hope you\nappreciate the cultural juxtaposition.) There is also a rather\npornographic Fuseli painting of them; you can find it on the Web--not\nPullman's witches, for sure. And, hey, vizcacha, some of us on this list\n*do* have daemons--you do youself ;-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Unfortunately, starting even in the first book, but getting worse in\nthe\nsecond and still worse in the third, Pullman lets his fantasy get out\nof\ncontrol. What many authors of fantasy forget is that if anything is\npossible, nothing is interesting. Eventually so many rabbits are\npulled out\nof so many hats that the dramatic tension in the story just vanishes,\nand\nall you are doing is following the plot to see how it works out. (The\nSF\nequivalent, I suppose, is the \"inventing a space-drive using the\ncontents of\nyour junk drawer\" story, or any Star Trek episode)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To which Adam replied, making me LOL:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Or the protagonist suddenly discovering he can travel in spirit to\nother\nplanets? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, the only place in the second book (perhaps aside from the many\ncoincidences) that I thought went too far was the angels sending a\nmessage via Dr Malone's computer OTOH many people do find gremlins in\ntheir computers!\n\nDid you all like Hester? She was my favorite daemon. (I haven't yet read\nBook 3.)\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2001-04-26T23:09:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 4:08 PM -0400 4/26/01, wrote:\nDid you all like Hester? She was my favorite daemon. (I haven't yet read\nBook 3.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "alga,\n\nHester was my favorite, too. I also thought the armored bears and the \nwitches were very well done.\n\nI'm glad you are enjoying the books. I hope your enjoyment continues \nthrough book 3.\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-04-28T11:09:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "vizcacha inquired:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Which play is the Shakespeare reference in? And where in Milton?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Finnish mythology (which\nI know\nisn't quite the same as Lapland mythology, but hey...). When I was a\nkid I\ndiscovered Emil Petaja's series which was a thinly disguised\n_Kalevala_, and\nloved it. I have to admit I've only Xena'd a few times, and not seen\nany\nLapland witches. One of my Everquest characters (admission of\naddiction\nhere) is a shaman, and they are very fun to play." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sure, these are but imaginary wiles\nAnd Lapland sorcerers inhabit here.\n\nComedy of Errors Act 4--hmm. that's not quite right; the girls are\ncalled witches several times in the same scene, and I think there's a\nreference, though it may be indirect, in Midsummer Night's Dream.\n\nFarr less abhorrd then these\nVex'd SCYLLA bathing in the Sea that parts\nCALABRIA from the hoarce TRINACRIAN shore:\nNor uglier follow the Night-Hag, when call'd\nIn secret, riding through the Air she comes\nLur'd with the smell of infant blood, to dance\nWith LAPLAND Witches, while the labouring Moon\nEclipses at thir charms.\n\nParadise Lost, Book 2\n\nWhat is Emil Petaja's series? The shamaness witch in Xena was a very bad\nhat, a worthy opponent, and the eps (3, I think) were quite thrilling,\nwith a lot of wire work a la Crouching Tiger. I don't suppose Finnish\nand Lap mythology differs much, but \"Finnish witches\" doesn't have the\nuncanny sound of \"Lapland witches.\"\n\nI'm 135 pages into Book 3 and already I feel that the writer is\nflagging. Those critters that Dr. Malone finds with the wheels and\ntrunks seem plain silly to me, ditto the giant birds with the malevolent\npoops.\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "pei047 at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-05-29T20:29:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Have you tried spelling Sir Charles Latrom's name backwards? \n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Spectacled Bear", "address": "spectacled.bear at pobox.com" }, "date": "2001-05-30T10:47:14+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Pullman", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 01:29 2001-05-30, Alice Turner wrote:\nHave you tried spelling Sir Charles Latrom's name backwards? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Indeed, though I'm not at all sure what the significance is!\n\nSBear." } ] } ] }