Subject: (urth) Pullman

From: akt <akt at attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:08:30 +0000

> The witches reminded me of the witches in the Kalevala, which is a
nice change
> from the usual witches one meets in fantasy. The concept of the
daemons was
> well-done and well-elaborated, with some unexpected but
well-thought-out
> twists in the later books (e.g., why do _we_ not have daemons?).

Well, sure! They're Lapland witches! Shakepeare, Milton and Goethe all
refer to Lapland witches and I couldn't have been more thrilled to meet
them, and so wonderfully described. A couple of the very best Xena eps
have her running up against a Northern shamaness/witch. (I hope you
appreciate the cultural juxtaposition.) There is also a rather
pornographic Fuseli painting of them; you can find it on the Web--not
Pullman's witches, for sure. And, hey, vizcacha, some of us on this list
*do* have daemons--you do youself ;-)

> Unfortunately, starting even in the first book, but getting worse in
the
> second and still worse in the third, Pullman lets his fantasy get out
of
> control. What many authors of fantasy forget is that if anything is
> possible, nothing is interesting. Eventually so many rabbits are
pulled out
> of so many hats that the dramatic tension in the story just vanishes,
and
> all you are doing is following the plot to see how it works out. (The
SF
> equivalent, I suppose, is the "inventing a space-drive using the
contents of
> your junk drawer" story, or any Star Trek episode).

To which Adam replied, making me LOL:

> Or the protagonist suddenly discovering he can travel in spirit to
other
> planets? <g>

Actually, the only place in the second book (perhaps aside from the many
coincidences) that I thought went too far was the angels sending a
message via Dr Malone's computer OTOH many people do find gremlins in
their computers!

Did you all like Hester? She was my favorite daemon. (I haven't yet read
Book 3.)

-alga

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

---

From: William Ansley <wansley at warwick.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:09:58 +0000

>Did you all like Hester? She was my favorite daemon. (I haven't yet read

alga,

Hester was my favorite, too. I also thought the armored bears and the 
witches were very well done.

I'm glad you are enjoying the books. I hope your enjoyment continues 
through book 3.

William Ansley

---

From: Alice Turner <akt at attglobal.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:09:29 +0000

vizcacha inquired:

> Which play is the Shakespeare reference in? And where in Milton?
That's
> interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Finnish mythology (which
I know
> isn't quite the same as Lapland mythology, but hey...). When I was a
kid I
> discovered Emil Petaja's series which was a thinly disguised
_Kalevala_, and
> loved it. I have to admit I've only Xena'd a few times, and not seen
any
> Lapland witches. One of my Everquest characters (admission of
addiction
> here) is a shaman, and they are very fun to play.

Sure, these are but imaginary wiles
And Lapland sorcerers inhabit here.

Comedy of Errors Act 4--hmm. that's not quite right; the girls are
called witches several times in the same scene, and I think there's a
reference, though it may be indirect, in Midsummer Night's Dream.

Farr less abhorrd then these
Vex'd SCYLLA bathing in the Sea that parts
CALABRIA from the hoarce TRINACRIAN shore:
Nor uglier follow the Night-Hag, when call'd
In secret, riding through the Air she comes
Lur'd with the smell of infant blood, to dance
With LAPLAND Witches, while the labouring Moon
Eclipses at thir charms.

Paradise Lost, Book 2

What is Emil Petaja's series? The shamaness witch in Xena was a very bad
hat, a worthy opponent, and the eps (3, I think) were quite thrilling,
with a lot of wire work a la Crouching Tiger. I don't suppose Finnish
and Lap mythology differs much, but "Finnish witches" doesn't have the
uncanny sound of "Lapland witches."

I'm 135 pages into Book 3 and already I feel that the writer is
flagging. Those critters that Dr. Malone finds with the wheels and
trunks seem plain silly to me, ditto the giant birds with the malevolent
poops.

-alga

---

From: Alice Turner <pei047 at attglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 20:29:27 +0000

Have you tried spelling Sir Charles Latrom's name backwards? 

-alga

---

From: Spectacled Bear <spectacled.bear at pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:47:14 +0000

>Have you tried spelling Sir Charles Latrom's name backwards? 

Indeed, though I'm not at all sure what the significance is!

SBear.