{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2608", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2608, "subject": "Some recommendations [was Re: Witches, Daemons, Bears, Democrats]", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-04-27T11:44:25+00:00", "last": "2001-04-27T19:30:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-04-27T11:44:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Some recommendations [was Re: Witches, Daemons, Bears, Democrats]", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/27/01 8:21 AM, David Lebling at dlebling at ucentric.com wrote:\nYes, but the bears were my absolute favorite. I think I've read only one\nother story where bears have a civilization (as opposed to stories where\nbears are intelligent -- even Tolkien did that, and I don't count \"When\nBears Discover Fire\"). I _think_ it was a Poul Anderson story, but I can't\nrecall the title. I just remember the bears were very bearish, rather than\njust big humans in fur coats." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ha! A chance to plug one of my favorite, and totally obscure, books: _The\nCrimson Bears_ and _A Hundred Doors: The Crimson Bears, Part II_, by Tom\nLaFarge, published by Sun & Moon Press. Fascinating, inventive and very\nwell-written: the second book includes a chapter in the form of a scholarly\ndiscussion of a play based upon the events of the chapter. One of the\nbooks' covers compares them to Tolkien, but they're nothing like Tolkien. I\nhave to admit that the bears aren't particularly bearish, but there are also\nintelligent cats, who are fairly cat-like (and two other intelligent\nspecies, all with cultures of their own). Alas, I recently saw a copy of\nthe first book on a remainder table.\n\nI'll also recommend another wonderful, completely unknown book from the same\npublisher: _The Secret Service_ by Wendy Walker. This is a fantasy, but not\na genre fantasy. It takes place in our world, or something very close to\nit, and all the characters are human; there are only a couple of fantastic\nelements (something like _Lady into Fox_, if you're familiar with that).\nIt's superbly written; its prose is a pleasure to read for the rhythm alone.\nThere is a long, self-contained dream section which, standing alone, would\nbe one of the finest fantasy novellas I've ever read.\n\nWhile I'm on a roll, I'll also recommend _The Venetian Glass Nephew_ by\nElinor Wylie, better known as a poet. It was first published in the first\nhalf of the 20th century (I don't have my copy to hand), though it's been\nreprinted. It's this-worldly fantasy, like _The Secret Service_; the title\nis self-explanatory. It's a jeu d'esprit, but with a somber undercurrent.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "eli+", "address": "eli+ at gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2001-04-27T19:25:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Some recommendations [was Re: Witches, Daemons, Bears, Democrats]", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Adam Stephanides wrote:\nI'll also recommend another wonderful, completely unknown book from the same\npublisher: _The Secret Service_ by Wendy Walker. This is a fantasy, but not\na genre fantasy." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It was recommended to me that I read her stories in _The Sea-Rabbit_\nfirst. Do you have an opinion on this?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "While I'm on a roll, I'll also recommend _The Venetian Glass Nephew_ by\nElinor Wylie, better known as a poet. It was first published in the first\nhalf of the 20th century (I don't have my copy to hand), though it's been\nreprinted. It's this-worldly fantasy, like _The Secret Service_; the title\nis self-explanatory. It's a jeu d'esprit, but with a somber undercurrent." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read this recently, but Didn't Get It. It felt fairy-talish --\ndistanced, and people fell in love without provocation -- which maybe\nI wasn't in the mood for. There were some nice ideas and writing, but\nthe I couldn't get excited about the package. Aesthetic mismatch, or\nmaybe if I were better informed? The cover blurb was all that let me\nknow that the magician fellow was Casanova, for example.\n\nAround that publication date, how about Hope Mirrlees' _Lud-in-the-mist_?\n\nFirst you notice the writing, charming coiling discursive writing,\nsharply observed. It outlines and colors the characters, sets them to\nlife, and draws back, but it is always present.\n\nThe people of Lud live not far from the Debatable Hills on the border of\nFaerie, but they determinedly do not believe in Faerie. The corrupting,\nmind-bending fairy-fruit that comes downstream? Its trafficking is\nprosecuted as the smuggling of silk.\n\nThese burghers are just the sort of people who in fantasy get their eyes\nopened for the better. But fairy fruit and fairy influence turn out to\nbe, though not the enemy they thought, not a friend, either. The\nMayor's son has eaten fairy fruit, and the daughters of the town are\nspirited away, and the Mayor has to rescue them -- from /what/ is not so\nclear. Some characters' history and motives become so involuted, and\nthe nature of Faerie so hard to untangle, that I have no idea whether\n(or not?) the ending, _Little, Big_ inside out, is happy or sad. I do\nknow that the book is wonderful fun to read.\n\nSpoiler, technically -- for page 10 or so:\n\nWhich is the land you don't return from, and who are the immortal ones?\nDeath, and the Dead. It's so sensible, now that she points it out.\nSurely this has been used somewhere else." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Eli Brandt | eli+ at cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-04-27T19:30:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Some recommendations [was Re: Witches, Daemons, Bears,", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/27/01 6:25 PM, eli+ at gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu at eli+ at gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu\nwrote:\nAdam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'll also recommend another wonderful, completely unknown book from the same\npublisher: _The Secret Service_ by Wendy Walker. This is a fantasy, but not\na genre fantasy." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It was recommended to me that I read her stories in _The Sea-Rabbit_\nfirst. Do you have an opinion on this?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To be honest, I bought _The Sea-Rabbit_ several years before coming across\n_The Secret Service_, and started to read it, but didn't get it at all\n(whereas I fell in love with _The Secret Service_ almost immediately). I\nshould give it a go, if I can ever dig my copy up." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "While I'm on a roll, I'll also recommend _The Venetian Glass Nephew_ by\nElinor Wylie, better known as a poet. It was first published in the first\nhalf of the 20th century (I don't have my copy to hand), though it's been\nreprinted. It's this-worldly fantasy, like _The Secret Service_; the title\nis self-explanatory. It's a jeu d'esprit, but with a somber undercurrent." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I read this recently, but Didn't Get It. It felt fairy-talish --\ndistanced, and people fell in love without provocation -- which maybe\nI wasn't in the mood for. There were some nice ideas and writing, but\nthe I couldn't get excited about the package. Aesthetic mismatch, or\nmaybe if I were better informed? The cover blurb was all that let me\nknow that the magician fellow was Casanova, for example." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suspect an aesthetic mismatch; to me the fairy-tale aspects you mention\nwere part of its charm.\n\n--Adam" } ] } ] }