{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2661",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2661,
    "subject": "Digest urth.v030.n118",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2001-05-23T11:43:17+00:00",
    "last": "2001-05-23T20:34:41+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0437@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes",
        "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-05-23T11:43:17+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) RE: Digest urth.v030.n118",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Roy wrote:\n... has anyone else wondered exactly what Wolfe intended with the\nlast six words of the story: \"a mountain ram winded its horns.\"? "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I presume it was a reference to the ram's horn or _shofar_ blown \nin the Temple on the High Holy Days (Yom Kippur?). It is generally\nagreed (among those who believe in the Fall to begin with) that \nthe unfallen animals had characteristics & abilities not present\nin the Fallen world -- i.e., the lion & the lamb were at peace,\nEve wasn't surprised to hear a serpent talking, etc., etc. -- so\nperhaps in an unfallen world, the ram might blow his own _shofar_ \nwithout humans needing to kill him? I dunno...\n\n--Dan'l"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0439@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alice Turner",
        "address": "pei047 at attglobal.net"
      },
      "date": "2001-05-23T20:34:41+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v030.n118",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0030-0437@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I swore I wasn't going to get into this one, but...sigh."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie\nwith\nher, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must\nI lie\nbeneath you?' she asked 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore\nyour\nequal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith,\nin a\nrage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.\"\n\nWe know that Wolfe is familiar with Graves, and I think that Jane\nDoe's\n\"Vhas a groose.\" and \"Aw zay, 'ou vhill nawt neffer grawnt offer mee\nagan.\"\nalmost certainly refers to Adam in this Lilith myth."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Roy is right. \"I say, you will not never grunt over me again.\" Double\nnegative being part of GW's accent-addiction. And I guess she's going\n\"Yuck!\" in the first part, though that's not the tradition, which was\nthat she got bored always doing it one way, not that she disliked it\naltogether."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On another tack, has anyone else wondered exactly what Wolfe intended\nwith\nthe last six words of the story: \"a mountain ram winded its horns.\"?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Even if"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Wolfe hadn't been raised in Texas, much less been a former Aggie, he\nhas to\nknow that no animal blows a horn, much less its own."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "This is why I'm outta this. (Or should be.)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Further perusal of HEBREW MYTHS yields the following wrt the\nfratricide of\nCain and Abel: Wolfe has a tendency to\nconflate and otherwise rearrange mythological elements to suit\nhimself,\nwhich is what he seems to me to have done in \"Copperhead\". Thus \"Dhoss\nbhoyes, de vhun keels de odder\", I still maintain refers to Cain and\nAbel,\nwhether or not it also refers to the murdered man and Boone."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Yup.\n\nBut (defiantly) it's still a dumb story.\n\n-alga"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}