{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/279", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 279, "subject": "Divine Weak", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-12-02T17:39:00+00:00", "last": "1997-12-03T14:10:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-12-02T17:39:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Divine Weak", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #6180832 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nalga,\n\nRe: Solange as stereotypical name for a maid. Onomasticly or\notherwise--do you have any examples or sources? (I've looked OED and\nLatin.)\n\nTony Ellis,\n\nRe: Divine Week, again, let me stress that this is the most\nspeculative bit. It arose from my having \"discovered\" the patterns\nof four and five segments in TBOTNS/URTH as hologrammically\nreproduced (or anticipated) by most of the stories from the brown\nbook (which also have five segments or are truncated at four segments\nas TBOTNS is truncated without URTH). When I tried to apply this\nscheme to the play E&G it didn't fit as cleanly as the fit I'd gotten\nfrom brown book stories, so I started casting about for a different\nstructure.\n\nHowever, it is, I believe, less arbitrary than you seem to think,\nsince Genesis of the Old Testament does, after all, begin with a\nDivine Week of creation (from \"In the Beginning . . .\" to \". . . and\non the seventh day He rested\") and this play =is= titled \"Eschatology\nand Genesis.\" (Granted that the OT Genesis doesn't follow planetary\nattributes that we recognize today--they didn't have exactly the\nplanetary week that we have. But the menora has seven branches,\netc.)\n\nThursday is \"Jupiter's day\" for the same reason that Monday is\nMoon's day--i.e., that is the planet associated/inextricably linked\nwith that particular weekday. (I probably should have listed them as\n\"Planet Gods\" rather than just planets?)\n\nFWIW Gabriel's role in the play is more like a herald, a \"Mercury\"\nof that sort (as opposed to psychopomp/shaman which I've assigned).\nThe (Old) Autarch's role in TBOTNS is linked to the Old Sun (and also\na bull of some sort: either the sacrificial Taurus, or/and the\nMinotaur of the maze [if there is any real difference between these\narchetypes!]); these linkages are probably carried out in\nE&G by having the same actor play Autarch and Old Sun (who is\nsacrificed for the New Sun).\n\nThe whole Divine Week idea is tenuous and =only= has a toehold if the\nplay has seven scenes--no more, no less. The strongest parallels (imho)\nare the hypothetical Sunday and the visible Saturday. For Thursday I was\nlooking for thunder and other jovian or jovial things--then again,\nsentences of torture take us to Juppiter's grimmest side: condemning\nPrometheus to eternal torment, etc.\n\nHere is another general statement about E&G: I don't think it is as\nmuch an unconscious blending of various and sundry eschatologies and\ngenesises; rather I think it is a self-aware, self-conscious\neschatology and genesis that remembers (or whose audience remembers)\nall the earlier stories (as well as our post-modern concepts of\nevolutions and extinctions) and now makes them equally valid and somehow\nsequential--this is the umpteenth eschatology and genesis in a long\nseries. (Kabbalah opens up Genesis from the same OT text and finds\nnot one creation but the creations of four different universes, each\nsuccessively further from God; and of course the Hindu cosmology\nwhich posits a chain of four major ages, from a golden age to a base and\ndegenerate age, with minor twilight ages and apocalypses in between.)\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tellis at futurenet.co.uk" }, "date": "1997-12-03T14:10:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Divine Weak", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " 03/12/97\n 14:17\n RE>Divine Weak\n\nApologies to everyone for those 3D\" pustules which littered\nmy last message. I don't know where they came from but I'll try not\nto use the key again until I find out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mantis wrote:\nRe: Divine Week, again, let me stress that this is the most\nspeculative bit. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Understood." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It arose from my having \"discovered\" the patterns\nof four and five segments in TBOTNS/URTH as hologrammically\nreproduced (or anticipated) by most of the stories from the brown\nbook" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This sounds intriguing. If you can put up with more of my remorseless\nblinkered scepticism I would love to hear the argument behind your\ntheory." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Here is another general statement about E&G: I don't think it is as\nmuch an unconscious blending of various and sundry eschatologies and\ngenesises; rather I think it is a self-aware, self-conscious\neschatology and genesis that remembers (or whose audience remembers)\nall the earlier stories (as well as our post-modern concepts of\nevolutions and extinctions) and now makes them equally valid and somehow\nsequential--this is the umpteenth eschatology and genesis in a long\nseries." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here I am much happier to go along with you. The composite stories\nfrom the Brown Book read as if they have accidentally blended \ntogether (The Jungle Book + The Founding of Rome etc) over the eons,\nbut the play seems more knowing. Hardly surprising, perhaps, given \nthat it was written by the wily, highly erudite Dr Talos. He seems to\nposses an almost encyclopedic knowledge of past human culture:\nnot only is he familiar with the \"lost\" Book of the New Sun, but he's read\nMary Shelley's Frankenstein too!" } ] } ] }