{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2825",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2825,
    "subject": "In Glory Like Their Star, initial reading",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2001-09-19T10:00:58+00:00",
    "last": "2001-09-19T10:04:41+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0698@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Joshua A. Solomon",
        "address": "j.a.solomon at city.ac.uk"
      },
      "date": "2001-09-19T10:04:41+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) In Glory Like Their Star, initial reading",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "'skun' This seems to be the only made-up word in the story. Why? I do not\nknow. \n\n'(The natives) speak for a long time when they have begun' and the narrator\nis also 'unable to control (his own) loquacity.' This implies similarity on\nanother level. See below for my idea with respect to this other level.\n\nEverything but the desert appeared to vanish as the narrator approached. On\none level, this merely implies that the narrator's journey took a long time.\nOn another level, it might mean that material things *effectively*\ndisappeared for the narrator. He clearly seems to be on some spiritual\nquest. He says 'who would labor to gain knowledge [to build a ship]? It is\nthe interior change that suffices, the transformation that rewards.' He also\nsaid 'Was it for truth's sake that I rode across the desert?...Inarguably.'\n\nThe narrator's quest is (at least to some extent) successful. He finds his\nscout, becomes ecstatic and grows 'so much' (in his own estimation). Note\nthat the quest is a success only because of the desert man's sacrifice.\nObvious Christian symbolism here. Note the narrator actually takes the\ndesert man's 'body fluid,' a la Catholicism's drinking the blood of Christ.\n\nOTOH, the narrator is not completely successful. He cannot reward the desert\nman, who 'died swiftly and in glory like their star.' Note that, since\n'their' world is called 'Earth,' their star must be the Sun. Sun = Son (of\nGod)? Perhaps. The implication is that the Sun is dead. This is consistent\nwith the sentence, 'They will be primitive, perhaps, when sunlight reaches\nthem on this place.' I guess a new Sun (Son?) must be on the way.\n\nThe narrator's incomplete success suggests to me that, like the natives, he\nrequires further spiritual development. Perhaps (just as in TBOTNS) a new\nsun is required for this and that is why the (old) sun had to die.\n\nbee"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Joshua A. Solomon\nDepartment of Optometry and Visual Science\nCity University\nLondon EC1V 0HB\nVoice: (44) 20 7040 0192\nFax: (44) 20 7040 0182\nJ.A.Solomon at city.ac.uk\nhttp://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~solomon"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0030-0699@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-09-19T10:00:58+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) In Glory Like Their Star, initial reading",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0030-0698@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "This looks promising. Only two notes:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 11:04 AM 9/19/2001 +0100, Joshua wrote:\n'skun' This seems to be the only made-up word in the story. Why?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "         A variant of 'sun'? Somehow?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "'(The natives) speak for a long time when they have begun' and the narrator\nis also 'unable to control (his own) loquacity.' This implies similarity on\nanother level. See below for my idea with respect to this other level."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "         I took the loquacity of the natives to indicate ritual. They \napproach this \"god\" with a continual stream of repeated phrases. Also, from \nwhat I recall, their repeated phrases were requests for gifts, which \nresembles pagan religion: bring your gifts/bribes and feed your gods and \nask them over and over for benefits. The Biblical or Judeo-Christian notion \nof sacrifice is rather different: self-killing by proxy as a confession of \nguilt and a plea for mercy. Requests for benefits come afterwards, and \nJesus said not to be overly repetitious, and the psalms are quite \nunrepetitious in form. Thus, I took it that a kind of pagan religion was \nbeing pictured by Wolfe.\n\nNutria"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}