take 'em, tiger
The Urth list — 4 messages, 4 voices, 01 Dec 2001
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2851

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aturner3 — 01 Dec 2001, 11:37

A message from Wolfe:

? Pioneer Press September 27, 2001
A guest essay by Gene Wolfe, published in a Chicago-area local newspaper, is
unfortunately not online. Wolfe urges citizens to act quickly, and pressure
the politicians to take action... 

We will be told that the perpetrators (and only the perpetrators) must be
punished, and that the greatest pains must be taken to make certain no
innocent person suffers. That sounds much better than saying no action
should be taken, but it comes to the same thing. The perpetrators cannot be
punished. They died in the planes they hijacked and are beyond our reach. It
is not possible to fight a war (not even a losing war) without causing
innocent people to suffer. 

Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations that
harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4) return
non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist organizations
everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on terrorists. 

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James Jordan — 01 Dec 2001, 18:37
  follows, by subject match aturner3

> At 03:37 AM 12/1/2001 -0800, Alice wrote:
> Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations that
> harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4) return
> non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist organizations
> everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on terrorists.

#s3. & 4. seem extreme. As for #1., I prefer the analogy of declaring war 
on the Barbary Pirates. Declare war on Al Qaeda and anyone similar, not on 
nations qua nations, unless things change. That would cover #5. Iraq is a 
special case; I think Bush has done correctly to say let the UN inspectors 
back in now, or else....  I agree with #6, though I think Israel needs to 
correct some things in her behavior also.

The main thing, I think, is not to be naive about Islam in general and 
radical Islamism in particular. The American understanding of society is 
rooted in Christian notions, that God is One but also a Community, so tht 
there are multiple "heirarchies" and "spheres" in life (church, state, 
family, media, business, etc.), and that love & reasonable persuasion is 
the best way to function in community. Islam is purely monotheistic, with 
one hierarchy from Allah to men to women & children & slaves, a hierarchy 
based solely on power and not moderated by love and persuasion. Though many 
Westerners are not Christian by personal committment, they have been 
influenced by these Christian (and partly Athenian) ideas; and of course 
many people in Islam have been influenced by Western ideas. But pure Islam, 
and thus the Islamic militant revival, rejects those moderating ideas. What 
they understand is power, and it is important for the West (America in this 
case) to show Great Power, the "big footprint," in suppressing radical 
Islamism. Neither kindness nor reasonable persuasion are going to work on 
people who want to keep their women in total subjection -- and I think the 
"liberation" of women is one of the main, if not THE main, threat/s these 
particular people fear and loathe. (Consider the Taliban.)

FWIW

Jim Jordan

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Adam Stephanides — 02 Dec 2001, 14:31
  follows, by subject match James Jordan

For the sake of civility, I suggest that people refrain from making claims
for the superiority of one religion over another on this list.

I would dispute Jim Jordan's comments, but I would prefer to just drop the
topic.

--Adam

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Michael Straight — 03 Dec 2001, 13:35
  follows, by subject match Adam Stephanides

Not too surprising Wolfe would have strong opinions on this subject.  
Just about every book he writes has a war in it.  The only exceptions I
can think of are Peace (heh.), Free Live Free, There Are Doors, and
Pandora.

-Rostrum

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