{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2869",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2869,
    "subject": "Digest urth.v031.n015",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2001-12-14T00:18:39+00:00",
    "last": "2001-12-17T16:36:10+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0031-urth.v031.n016.1@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Duffy",
        "address": "davidd at qimr.edu.au"
      },
      "date": "2001-12-14T00:18:39+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: Digest urth.v031.n015",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 Jerry Friedman wrote:\nThere's an essay by Wolfe about Tolkien in December's \"Interzone\"\nand freedoms - the Christian order itself, even if there is no sight of\nGod himself in the books."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"No sight of God\" is literally true, but God is busily arranging\ncoincidences, prophetic dreams, and stuff like that.  Sort of like TBotNS,\nas a matter of fact.  I wonder whether Tolkien was Wolfe's model in that\nbook."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Curiously, the ultra-Catholic Lafferty despised LOTR because he thought"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "It's also interesting, at least to me, that as a child I felt a bit\nbetrayed when I realized that _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_ was\nChristian propaganda, and I'm glad LotR didn't do that to me.  Obviously\nI've gotten over this, since I like Wolfe."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Tolkien said that he disliked allegory.  As a child, I read his\nintroduction to LOTR, and used it to justify a literal reading of the\nPilgrim's Progress ;).  Wolfe always has a-not-always-convincing\nalternative explanation for the events in his stories, while Lafferty...\n\nHave we been here before?\n\nArwen = Apheta\nAragorn = Severian\nelves = Heirodules\nGandalf = Father Inire\nGollum = Baldanders (has to get that ring you know, or maybe Saruman)\nRing = Claw\nSauron = Abaia\n\nI am unsure who Cate Blanchett gets to play\n\n| David Duffy.                                                     ,-_|\\\n| email: davidD at qimr.edu.au  ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101    /     *\n| Epidemiology Unit, The Queensland Institute of Medical Research \\_,-._/\n| 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia                 v"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0031-urth.v031.n018.1@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jerry Friedman",
        "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-12-17T16:36:10+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v031.n015",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0031-urth.v031.n016.1@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "--- David Duffy <davidD at qimr.edu.au> wrote:\nOn Thu, 13 Dec 2001 Jerry Friedman wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "There's an essay by Wolfe about Tolkien in December's \"Interzone\"\nand freedoms - the Christian order itself, even if there is no sight\nof\nGod himself in the books."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "\"No sight of God\" is literally true, but God is busily arranging\ncoincidences, prophetic dreams, and stuff like that.  Sort of like\nTBotNS,\nas a matter of fact.  I wonder whether Tolkien was Wolfe's model in\nthat\nbook."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Tolkien said that he disliked allegory.  As a child, I read his\nintroduction to LOTR, and used it to justify a literal reading of the\nPilgrim's Progress ;).  Wolfe always has a-not-always-convincing\nalternative explanation for the events in his stories, while Lafferty...\n\nHave we been here before?\n\nArwen = Apheta\nAragorn = Severian\nelves = Heirodules\nGandalf = Father Inire\nGollum = Baldanders (has to get that ring you know, or maybe Saruman)\nRing = Claw\nSauron = Abaia\n\nI am unsure who Cate Blanchett gets to play"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Master Malrubius.\n\nLooks like I was unclear above.  I meant that LotR may have been Wolfe's\nmodel in how to handle literarily the role of God, not that BotNS is some\nkind of imitation of LotR.\n\nJerry Friedman"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}