Subject: The Best Introduction To The Mountains

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:38:02 +0000

Hello, and are Urth and The Whorl still turning?

Recently INERZONE published an essay by Gene Wolfe, explaining what The Lord
Of The Rings meant to him.

I was very impressed by Wolfe's words, and I purchased from him the right to
display the essay on my own website.

I am foolish enough to believe that the essay says some important things
about Tolkien's work. At any rate it moved me deeply.

If you should be interested, it is at:

http://home.clara.net/andywrobertson/docindex.html

    Andy Robertson

---

From: Steve Strickland <sstrickland at satx.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:44:16 +0000

Mr. Robertson,

Many thanks!  Tolkien and Wolfe are without a doubt the two authors who've
resonated most strongly with me over the last 25 years or so, so an essay by
one about the other is a dream come true.  Naturally, when I heard about the
Wolfe article, I looked long and hard for the INTERZONE issue, but was too
late.

Wow!  A very nice article.

Thanks again.

Steve Strickland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Robertson" <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
To: <urth at lists1.ba.best.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: (urth) The Best Introduction To The Mountains

> http://home.clara.net/andywrobertson/docindex.html
works
> *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/
ranjit at moonmilk.com
whorl at lists.best.com

---

From: Hubert Rogers <hubert at ntlworld.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 13:23:28 +0000

This is truely a masterpiece of an essay, very interesting ideas about
society. If only Tolkien lived to read Gene Wolfe's books...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Robertson" <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
To: <urth at lists1.ba.best.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: (urth) The Best Introduction To The Mountains

works
ranjit at moonmilk.com
whorl at lists.best.com

---

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:59:11 +0000

Uh.  Sorry, guys.   I thought the list was down and have now spammed a load
of you , , ,
Is the Whorl list still up?
Where are the archives for it and Urth?

:-\

    --- *** ---

Yes, it's a fantastic essay.    I believe it positions Wolfe as a conscious
inheritor of Lewis and Tolkien  -  far more *deliberately* using his art in
the service of his political and social ideals than he has ever acknowledged
up till now.

It is a great pity (and an utterly not-understandable thing) that it was
refused for MEDITATIONS ON MIDDLE-EARTH.

Might I politely ask you all to pass on information about it to anyone who
might be interested?    I really think it should see book publication, and
in fact I have posted it on my web site with the end in mind.

    Andy Robertson

---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:13:45 +0000

Thanks for putting this essay on your website, Andy; it's a great service.
I agree that it's an important essay for Wolfe scholars, even if you don't
care about Tolkien, as I don't.  (Has Wolfe ever mentioned Tolkien in print
before?)  Some aspects of his work definitely need to be reconsidered in
light of it, such as the presentation of the Autarch's rule in BOTNS as the
best possible under the circumstances, and of rebellion against it as
"Satanic"; and the portrayal of Silk and Silkhorn as "natural leaders."  And
I may have been too quick, earlier, to dismiss the poster who argued that
BOTSS presented examples of "good rule."  But then, those elements of the
books never appealed to me.

I haven't looked at MEDITATIONS ON MIDDLE-EARTH, but possibly Wolfe's essay
was rejected because the image of Tolkien as propagandist for a society in
which the lower orders cheerfully obey and serve their betters was not one
the editor wanted to project.

Between this and Wolfe's comments on 9-11 I'm learning more about Wolfe's
politics than I think I want to know, and I fear for THE WIZARD KNIGHT.

And Terry Brooks again!  First Pullman praises him, then Wolfe criticizes
his detractors.  I've never read him, but can it be that his bad reputation
is not entirely deserved?

--Adam

---

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:53:54 +0000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Stephanides" <adamsteph at earthlink.net>

> before?)

Not as far as I know.

> Some aspects of his work definitely need to be reconsidered in

Me neither, frankly.  I always thought Wolfe undermined Severian's moral
authority at every turn.

> the editor wanted to project.

But no, no, no, Wolfe is not propagandising for feudalism.

<quote>
There is one very real sense in which the Dark Ages were the brightest of
times, and it is this: that they were times of defined and definite duties
and freedoms.
</quote>

I understand that could be a mistake one would make reading this essay, but
he is talking about something much more like libertarianism:  freedom,
liberty and *property*. .   This has absolutely nohing to do with supporting
tyranny, (and if conservatism is about supporting tyranny, Wolfe is not a
conservative)

<quote>
We might have a society in which the laws were few and just, simple,
permanent, and familiar to everyone -- a society in which everyone stood
shoulder-to-shoulder because everyone lived by the same changeless rules,
and everyone knew what those rules were. When we had it, we would also have
a society in which the lack of wealth was not reason for resentment but a
spur to ambition, and in which wealth was not a cause for self-indulgence
but a call to service.
</quote>

> politics than I think I want to know, and I fear for THE WIZARD KNIGHT.

Wolfe is a Conservative Catholic Christian right-winger.   Deal With It!!!!

All his writing from THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS onward (apart from the odd
potboiler) has embodied this view of right and wrong.

> is not entirely deserved?

This I cannot believe, even from the hand of the Wolfe.

    --- *** ---

But where are Wolfe's comments on 9/11, pray?   I want to read them.

Yours in Conservative hufpuffery

    Andy Robertson

---

From: John Barach <jbarach at telusplanet.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:42:46 +0000

Andy --

Here's Alice's original post re. Wolfe on 9-11.

John

Subject: (urth) take 'em, tiger
     Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 03:37:38 -0800 (PST)
     From: aturner3 <aturner3 at nyc.rr.com>
 Reply-To: urth at lists.best.com
       To: urth at lists1.ba.best.com

A message from Wolfe:

? Pioneer Press September 27, 2001
A guest essay by Gene Wolfe, published in a Chicago-area local
newspaper, is unfortunately not online. Wolfe urges citizens to act
quickly, and pressure the politicians to take action... 

We will be told that the perpetrators (and only the perpetrators) must
be punished, and that the greatest pains must be taken to make certain
no innocent person suffers. That sounds much better than saying no
action should be taken, but it comes to the same thing. The perpetrators
cannot be punished. They died in the planes they hijacked and are beyond
our reach. It is not possible to fight a war (not even a losing war)
without causing innocent people to suffer. 

Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations
that harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4)
return non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist
organizations everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on
terrorists. 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Here's Jim Jordan's response:

At 03:37 AM 12/1/2001 -0800, Alice wrote:

>Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations that
>harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4) return
>non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist organizations
>everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on terrorists.

#s3. & 4. seem extreme. As for #1., I prefer the analogy of declaring
war on the Barbary Pirates. Declare war on Al Qaeda and anyone similar,
not on nations qua nations, unless things change. That would cover #5.
Iraq is a special case; I think Bush has done correctly to say let the
UN inspectors back in now, or else....  I agree with #6, though I think
Israel needs to correct some things in her behavior also.

The main thing, I think, is not to be naive about Islam in general and 
radical Islamism in particular. The American understanding of society is 
rooted in Christian notions, that God is One but also a Community, so
that there are multiple "heirarchies" and "spheres" in life (church,
state, family, media, business, etc.), and that love & reasonable
persuasion is the best way to function in community. Islam is purely
monotheistic, with one hierarchy from Allah to men to women & children &
slaves, a hierarchy based solely on power and not moderated by love and
persuasion. Though many Westerners are not Christian by personal
committment, they have been influenced by these Christian (and partly
Athenian) ideas; and of course many people in Islam have been influenced
by Western ideas. But pure Islam, and thus the Islamic militant revival,
rejects those moderating ideas. What they understand is power, and it is
important for the West (America in this case) to show Great Power, the
"big footprint," in suppressing radical Islamism. Neither kindness nor
reasonable persuasion are going to work on people who want to keep their
women in total subjection -- and I think the "liberation" of women is
one of the main, if not THE main, threat/s these particular people fear
and loathe. (Consider the Taliban.)

FWIW

Jim Jordan

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:24:57 +0000

> is not entirely deserved?

No.  Wolfe isn't saying Brooks is good.  He's criticizing those who slam
Brooks for being a Tolkien ripoff.  Wolfe wants more Tolkien ripoffs and
claims to be a Tolkien ripoff himself.  

It's OK to slam Brooks for being bad, just don't slam him for trying to
write the kind of books that Wolfe wants to read.

-Rostrum

---

From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at home.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:51:06 +0000

>write the kind of books that Wolfe wants to read.

Wolfe did have some nice things to say about Stephen Lawhead, to me, a few 
years ago. I imagine he considers Lawhead to be carrying the Tolkein torch 
pretty well. Never read Lawhead myself.

Nutria