Subject: Nerd? Artisan? PEACE!?

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:45:19 +0000

Andy R wrote:
Wolfe is what we call a Nerd, in this decadent age, and in a better one
        would call an Artisan. His interest is in working quietly, cunningly, 
and well; his hope is to be ruled by a true and good King; and his nearest 
self
        image (in his works) is the protagonist of PEACE.

        This is obvious from his books. Severian is no self-image of Wolfe: I
        never read a less convincing portrayal of the interior monologue of 
and
        aggressive and sexually violent man. Silk, celibate and constantly
        suffering for his high status, is something Wolfe is much happier 
with.
I cannot agree with you on your characterization of a nerdy celibate, 
especially from PEACE.  Weer molests an underage girl!  He calls sex 
absolutely ordinary, going on all the time.  Come on, all Wolfe's females are 
close to hookers (some are sympathetic hookers).  I think that Severian's 
interior monologue is a good representation of an aggressive man (and maybe a 
sexually violent man) because, let's face it, he doesn't think about it that 
much, he just does it, and I think that is pretty realistic.  Do you think 
Mike Tyson thinks about anything when he beats the crap out of people or 
molests them? (here about that thing in Cuba over New Years?)  He doesn't even 
remember the rules of boxing while he's in the ring.  Just think of Mike Tyson 
telling you about his experience in the brothel where the girl said she'd 
scream and he knew there was nobody around, and I think you'll come close to 
what you get in that scene in Shadow of the Torturer.

---

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:20:56 +0000

----- Original Message -----
From: "maa32" <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>

> I cannot agree with you on your characterization of a nerdy celibate,

I wasn't talking about Wolfe's private life at all, but about the type of
fictional character he is comfortable with!   (and maybe this is a good
point to resolve that we will stay away from any discussion of Wolfe's
private life).

But yes, he is a Nerd.   Nerd calleth unto nerd, yea even across the oceans
of space.  I can tell.

Nerd power!   Nerd Pride!!

    --- *** ---

Seriously, he is a man whose energies primary flow into his craft, not into
mastering others.

This again is characteristic of what he means by "the settled customary
goodness of the Shire".   That it is only in a society whose politics is
quiet - where political forms are fixed and settled by custom, and absorb
only a small fraction of the energies of men - that such men can thrive.

This is why he wrote rather unconvincingly about Severian, who genuinely
enjoyed power and domination, but much more convincingly about Silk - a man
who would rather have remained unimportant and small.

> especially from PEACE.  Weer molests an underage girl!

Weer is a batchelor who has missed the love of his life.    His occasional
sexual adventures are miserable and unsatisfying.

That underage girl with her "magic ring" is one of the saddest and most
accurate portrayals of promiscuous femininity I have ever read (and yes,
I've met older women exactly like that, even slept with them)

> He calls sex
> absolutely ordinary, going on all the time.

Compensation because he isn't getting any

> Come on, all Wolfe's females are
> close to hookers (some are sympathetic hookers).

Good point.  But repentant evil is always easier to portray than sympathetic
good. Mary Magdelene comes to mind.

> I think that Severian's
> much, he just does it, and I think that is pretty realistic.

I will expand slightly

In my experience aggressive people are usually fundamentally logical people
who fight because they have to or gain advantage from doing so.   They are
not incapable of making constructive alliances or of affection.    They are,
in fact, normal.   Hildegrin is a good example, well portrayed.     Auk is
another in the same mould.

However, Severian was a picture of someone far more complex than that.  He
is not  simply moderately violent by inclination or practical necessity - he
is a man trained into lethal violence from birth, and trained *not to feel
anything when he performs violence* from birth.

It is very hard to make such a person convincing, because we have no echo of
their interior life within us.   All of us have been in childish scuffles at
least.  None of us have ever been Torturers.

Wolfe did as well as he possibly could, by making Severian utterly hard and
cold, and obviously badly damaged, psychologically.    With Silk, Wolfe
portrayed someone far closer to normality, and correspondingly more
believable.

    Andy Robertson