{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2886", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2886, "subject": "Digest urth.v031.n025", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-01-05T03:30:47+00:00", "last": "2002-01-05T12:32:27+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner3 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2002-01-05T03:30:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: Digest urth.v031.n025", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nIn June of last year I received a letter from Gene Wolfe. Mostly it was\nabout many other things, but in the end he did mention that he was having\ndifficulty with the company that was supposed to publish his Tolkien\nessay.\nThey wanted him to secure written permissions for =every= quote, including\nthe personal letter from Tolkien to Gene Wolfe and the poem by Noyes (who\ndied in 1958). (Those of us who have read the essay also would add Robert\nE. Howard, at least. There are a lot of quotes!) This seemed insane to\nGene Wolfe, in the modern day where Harlan Ellison is trying so hard to\nstop people from web-publishing entire sf stories without permission from\nthe sf author.\n\n(Well those of us who have followed such things in US publishing can say,\n\"Thank you, J.D. Salinger.\")\n\nIn any event, Gene Wolfe wrote pretty unambiguously in the letter that the\nproject was dead from his point of view. Non-compliance on his part.\n\nAnd lo, the essay did not appear in the US book; but it did appear in a UK\nmagazine.\n\nSo it seems to me that if there was any \"rejection\" involved with the\nTolkien book, it was Gene Wolfe's rejection of the terms and subsequent\nwithdrawal of the essay." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This excuse is pretty hard to swallow, though I have no doubt that Wolfe\nemployed it. We're talking about quotations from Thoreau(!), Conrad Aiken,\nRobert Howard, Tolkien and Lewis. Perhaps it is true that the estates of the\nlast two are difficult to deal with, but I would think \"fair use\" plus the\nfact that one quote is from a letter to the author would carry the\nday--these are not extensive quotes. I don't know about the publisher, but\nKaren Haber is not naive or a nitwit about publishing. There indeed seems be\nsome crankiness at work, but not necessarily from the publisher, no matter\nwhat Wolfe may have told you.\n\n-a-" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-01-05T04:25:24+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v031.n025", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "alga wrote:\nThis excuse is pretty hard to swallow, though I have no doubt that Wolfe\nemployed it. We're talking about quotations from Thoreau(!), Conrad Aiken,\nRobert Howard, Tolkien and Lewis. Perhaps it is true that the estates of the\nlast two are difficult to deal with, but I would think \"fair use\" plus the\nfact that one quote is from a letter to the author would carry the\nday--these are not extensive quotes. I don't know about the publisher, but\nKaren Haber is not naive or a nitwit about publishing. There indeed seems be\nsome crankiness at work, but not necessarily from the publisher, no matter\nwhat Wolfe may have told you." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My recollection of the J.D. Salinger case was precisely that: the use of\nletters from Salinger to the author, to be used in a brand new book about\nSalinger. I could be wrong (perhaps the main point in that case was the\nuse of the full letters).\n\nIn a later post I tried to point out that the practice of putting the\nburden of getting permissions on the author is commonplace, the norm, so\nlet's dispense with that issue. I was not saying that the publisher was\nbeing unusual, if that is still not clear.\n\nBut while we are on the topic of crankiness . . .\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "davidd at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2002-01-05T12:32:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: Digest urth.v031.n025", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "..... I think you're putting too much emphasis on the libertarian elements\nin Wolfe's political thought (which are certainly present), at the expense\nof his call for submission to legitimate authority, which is just as\nimportant, if not more so." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I see the history of New Viron, incl Horn & Nettle's failure as farmers, and\nthe rise of slavery, as an attack on certain libertarian fantasies that all\nwill be well living the autonomous (anarchic) frontier life. (maybe not that\ndifferent from Farnham's Freehold ;))\n\nDavid.\n\n| David Duffy. ,-_|\\\n| email: davidD at qimr.edu.au ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101 / *\n| Epidemiology Unit, The Queensland Institute of Medical Research \\_,-._/\n| 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia v" } ] } ] }