{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2908", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2908, "subject": "hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-02-01T18:26:21+00:00", "last": "2002-02-06T16:51:58+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-02-01T18:26:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It was very astutely noted by Rostrum (sorry if I got that wrong - a very long \ndigest) that hybrids are the key, not plant genetics. Of course, that is also \nwhat I am saying - hybridization between tree and man allows Blue to be Ushas.\n Horn's son cannot see the connection between where they are right now and \nhybridization, but Horn says it has everything to do with where they are now.\n\nAlso, thanks for the info on Crowley, Alga.\n\nJoe, I have also pondered the green mankiller references. He has two very \nlong tusks - first I thought it was Babbie coming back, but now that I \nhonestly believe Babbie is Horn, I don't know for sure ... but there is also \nthat fascinating part in The Shadow of the Torturer I've never been able to \nget straight, where Severian is walking around in his dream and it seems like \nTriskele has become a big scary thing lurking in the basement that talks to \nhim. Could this have anything to do with Sev/Triskele, or should we look more \nexplicitly within the Book of the Short Sun? Also, remember that one of the \nlast scenes involves Triskele and I really haven't been able to justify that \nscene in my mind, especially if you believe that Silk is mostly in control \nfrom the end of On Blue's Waters, with only the smallest fragment of Horn left \ninside him, and that Sev does not need to resurrect him. I think the green \nmankiller is definitely worth looking up.\n\nOn another note, did anybody ever get the feeling that Horn hates Sinew so \nmuch because he was somehow responsible for killing Krait? Remember Inclito's \nstory about brother killing brother ... the death of Krait is still sketchy \nfor me. How was he wounded? Even Horn's death (on green) is still odd.\n\nThanks for your responses, everybody.\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-02-01T20:12:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, maa32 wrote:\nIt was very astutely noted by Rostrum (sorry if I got that wrong - a very long \ndigest) that hybrids are the key, not plant genetics. Of course, that is also \nwhat I am saying - hybridization between tree and man allows Blue to be Ushas.\n Horn's son cannot see the connection between where they are right now and \nhybridization, but Horn says it has everything to do with where they are now." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe has other symbolic things going on, but what Horn is saying is that\nthey can only go so far with derivative technology (like the hybrid corn\nseed). They are trying to use tech that is twice removed from the\noriginal planet it was developed on (Urth-->Whorl-->Blue) and it's not\nworking. The hybrid corn is just the most obvious example. They need to\ngo back to the Whorl to try to recover more technology (agricultural and\notherwise) that is closer to the source.\n\nHorn's point is that in order to get closer to the original, you have to\nleave Blue and go back to the Whorl, which is the opposite of the\nsignificance you're trying to read into it.\n\n(I still don't buy the plant/human hybrid theory, nor the Blue=Urth\ntheory, but you have brought up some interesting details and possible\nconnections.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On another note, did anybody ever get the feeling that Horn hates Sinew so \nmuch because he was somehow responsible for killing Krait? Remember Inclito's \nstory about brother killing brother ... the death of Krait is still sketchy \nfor me. How was he wounded? Even Horn's death (on green) is still odd." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's implied that Krait was wounded in fighting with the humans against\nthe inhumi and their slaves. Horn says in IGJ that Sinew and the others\nrefused to go back for Krait and were in the process of leaving the\nwounded Horn on his own and that Horn had to struggle to return for Krait\n(Horn didn't know it was Krait, or wasn't admiting it to himself, although\nhe had noticed there was one too many people among them).\n\nBut unless the narrator is seriously skewing Horn's memories, Horn\n(mistakenly) believed that Sinew hated him long before they went to Green.\nIf anything, I'd say that the fact we can so clearly read between the\nlines and see that Sinew really loved Horn is because Silk can see what\nHorn can't and is influencing the narrator's account.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-02-04T17:12:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--- maa32 wrote:\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Joe, I have also pondered the green mankiller references. He has two\nvery \nlong tusks - first I thought it was Babbie coming back, but now that I \nhonestly believe Babbie is Horn, I don't know for sure ... but there is\nalso \nthat fascinating part in The Shadow of the Torturer I've never been able\nto \nget straight, where Severian is walking around in his dream and it seems\nlike \nTriskele has become a big scary thing lurking in the basement that talks\nto \nhim." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\n\"a huge friend with dripping jaws that spoke to me\" (if I have it right\nafter looking it up last night)--not so scary. It's right after Severian\nmeets Triskele.\n\nWhere's the green mankiller? (If looking it up is any trouble, don't\nbother. I can take the trouble myself.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-02-06T16:51:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--- Michael Straight wrote:\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's implied that Krait was wounded in fighting with the humans against\nthe inhumi and their slaves. Horn says in IGJ that Sinew and the others\nrefused to go back for Krait and were in the process of leaving the\nwounded Horn on his own and that Horn had to struggle to return for\nKrait\n(Horn didn't know it was Krait, or wasn't admiting it to himself,\nalthough\nhe had noticed there was one too many people among them)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nHas anyone connected this with Luke 24?\n\n13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus,\nabout seven miles from Jerusalem.\n14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.\n15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus\nhimself came up and walked along with them;\n16 but they were kept from recognizing him.\n\n(New International Version from .)\n\nSee also \"The Waste Land\" and Eliot's notes.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] } ] }