# hybrids/ green mankiller/Sinew *The Urth list — 4 messages, 3 voices, 01 Feb 2002* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### maa32 *01 Feb 2002, 18:26* It was very astutely noted by Rostrum (sorry if I got that wrong - a very long digest) that hybrids are the key, not plant genetics. Of course, that is also what I am saying - hybridization between tree and man allows Blue to be Ushas. Horn's son cannot see the connection between where they are right now and hybridization, but Horn says it has everything to do with where they are now. Also, thanks for the info on Crowley, Alga. Joe, I have also pondered the green mankiller references. He has two very long tusks - first I thought it was Babbie coming back, but now that I honestly believe Babbie is Horn, I don't know for sure ... but there is also that fascinating part in The Shadow of the Torturer I've never been able to get straight, where Severian is walking around in his dream and it seems like Triskele has become a big scary thing lurking in the basement that talks to him. Could this have anything to do with Sev/Triskele, or should we look more explicitly within the Book of the Short Sun? Also, remember that one of the last scenes involves Triskele and I really haven't been able to justify that scene in my mind, especially if you believe that Silk is mostly in control from the end of On Blue's Waters, with only the smallest fragment of Horn left inside him, and that Sev does not need to resurrect him. I think the green mankiller is definitely worth looking up. On another note, did anybody ever get the feeling that Horn hates Sinew so much because he was somehow responsible for killing Krait? Remember Inclito's story about brother killing brother ... the death of Krait is still sketchy for me. How was he wounded? Even Horn's death (on green) is still odd. Thanks for your responses, everybody. Marc Aramini --- ### Michael Straight *01 Feb 2002, 20:12 · follows maa32* > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, maa32 wrote: > It was very astutely noted by Rostrum (sorry if I got that wrong - a very long > digest) that hybrids are the key, not plant genetics. Of course, that is also > what I am saying - hybridization between tree and man allows Blue to be Ushas. > Horn's son cannot see the connection between where they are right now and > hybridization, but Horn says it has everything to do with where they are now. Wolfe has other symbolic things going on, but what Horn is saying is that they can only go so far with derivative technology (like the hybrid corn seed). They are trying to use tech that is twice removed from the original planet it was developed on (Urth-->Whorl-->Blue) and it's not working. The hybrid corn is just the most obvious example. They need to go back to the Whorl to try to recover more technology (agricultural and otherwise) that is closer to the source. Horn's point is that in order to get closer to the original, you have to leave Blue and go back to the Whorl, which is the opposite of the significance you're trying to read into it. (I still don't buy the plant/human hybrid theory, nor the Blue=Urth theory, but you have brought up some interesting details and possible connections.) > On another note, did anybody ever get the feeling that Horn hates Sinew so > much because he was somehow responsible for killing Krait? Remember Inclito's > story about brother killing brother ... the death of Krait is still sketchy > for me. How was he wounded? Even Horn's death (on green) is still odd. It's implied that Krait was wounded in fighting with the humans against the inhumi and their slaves. Horn says in IGJ that Sinew and the others refused to go back for Krait and were in the process of leaving the wounded Horn on his own and that Horn had to struggle to return for Krait (Horn didn't know it was Krait, or wasn't admiting it to himself, although he had noticed there was one too many people among them). But unless the narrator is seriously skewing Horn's memories, Horn (mistakenly) believed that Sinew hated him long before they went to Green. If anything, I'd say that the fact we can so clearly read between the lines and see that Sinew really loved Horn is because Silk can see what Horn can't and is influencing the narrator's account. -Rostrum --- ### Jerry Friedman *04 Feb 2002, 17:12 · follows Michael Straight* --- maa32 wrote: ... > Joe, I have also pondered the green mankiller references. He has two > very > long tusks - first I thought it was Babbie coming back, but now that I > honestly believe Babbie is Horn, I don't know for sure ... but there is > also > that fascinating part in The Shadow of the Torturer I've never been able > to > get straight, where Severian is walking around in his dream and it seems > like > Triskele has become a big scary thing lurking in the basement that talks > to > him. ... "a huge friend with dripping jaws that spoke to me" (if I have it right after looking it up last night)--not so scary. It's right after Severian meets Triskele. Where's the green mankiller? (If looking it up is any trouble, don't bother. I can take the trouble myself.) ``` Jerry Friedman ``` --- ### Jerry Friedman *06 Feb 2002, 16:51 · follows Jerry Friedman* --- Michael Straight wrote: ... > It's implied that Krait was wounded in fighting with the humans against > the inhumi and their slaves. Horn says in IGJ that Sinew and the others > refused to go back for Krait and were in the process of leaving the > wounded Horn on his own and that Horn had to struggle to return for > Krait > (Horn didn't know it was Krait, or wasn't admiting it to himself, > although > he had noticed there was one too many people among them). ... Has anyone connected this with Luke 24? 13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him. (New International Version from .) See also "The Waste Land" and Eliot's notes. Jerry Friedman ---