{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2915", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2915, "subject": "\"Hour of Trust\" itself (2)", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "2002-02-03T16:25:24+00:00", "last": "2002-02-03T16:25:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-02-03T16:25:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) \"Hour of Trust\" itself (2)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In reply to my note, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nIt =is= a strange story. It starts out with the obsessive detail worthy of\nREPORT ON PROBABILITY A" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I had been thinking Robbe-Grillet (which was a main influence on REPORT, if\nI'm not mistaken)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, exactly so. I was trying to keep it within genre, and the Aldiss\nnovel had recently come up anyway within a Wolfe context." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I mean this: I understand the image of the woman bursting into flames as he\ntouches her erogenous zones, since this was already established as the\nkamikaze hug of the Peace woman." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd interpret the final paragraphs to mean that they make love first, and\nonly after Peters' post-coital conversation does she go up." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I will agree that the delicate phrasing makes this reading possible, and\nthat I had seen that fork in the text and took the least-time-interval\npath, but either way it doesn't greatly affect my overall point." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " But if that is truly the case, then I\nhave to wonder: why him, why now, why here? She claims to have slept with\nhis boss--wouldn't the boss be a better target? Then again, she says that\nthe boss is purposefully losing the war, that is, he is perhaps her puppet,\nor at least not doing anything she doesn't want." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Referring to her statement \"'That's why Lowell is losing his war.'\"? (164)\nBut in context, this just means that the war is being lost; and I don't see\nanything else implying that Lowell is purposefully losing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do you see what I mean, though? I am trying to answer the obvious\nquestion, \"Why doesn't she kill Lowell?\" and the first answer is, \"Because\nhe is losing the war [consciously or not] and that is what she wants.\" A\npossible stretcher would be, \"Because if Lowell is out, then Peters will\ninherit the throne.\"\n\nThe text establishes desire as a function of resemblence to someone\nunattainable (like Severian:Thea:Thecla:\"Thecla\"). Peters lusts after the\ndark haired model/prostitute presumably because she resembles Clio (whom he\nconsiders unattainable); while waiting in line for her, he is told to man\nhis post instead (set back); but then, glorious surprise, while he is the\nonly one working at the party, who should enter the room but Clio herself.\nAnd what do you know, very quickly she talks about how Peters reminds her\nof someone--Lowell. All magically romantic.\n\nThe insistance that Peters is a young Lowell seems to suggest that Peters\nwill (somehow) inherit the throne." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't know why she picked him as a target either. My guess would be\nsimply that he's one of the few competent people working for the\nanti-rebellion forces, and therefore worth eliminating. You'd think,\nthough, that having a spy working for one of the enemy leaders would be\nworth more than eliminating one subordinate, especially one who hasn't done\nanything amazing yet. Or maybe she's not working for the rebellion at all,\nand commits murder/suicide on her own, for whatever reason." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Precisely. The first fire-girl we see is presented as a non-specialist:\nall she has to do is walk out there, attract some soldiers, and flame on.\nClio-the-rebel is obviously a higher level creature in the hierarchy--she\nsuccessfully infiltrated US (at least one year earlier), and presumably her\ninside-information on forces and their allocation, fed to the rebels, is\nwhat makes the ragtag hairies win such stunning victories against all odds.\nIf this standard espionage scenario holds true, then yes, Clio alive and in\nplace is worth far more than even a roomful of US employees, nevermind just\none." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Symbolically, though, it make more sense to me. Clio is history, as you\npoint out (good call; I hadn't noticed that), and she stopped sleeping with\nLou about six weeks ago (165), signaling that history has withdrawn its\nfavor from the \"government\" cause. In signaling his intention to try and\nturn things around, Peters is attempting to stand in the path of history,\nand people who do that get steamrollered by history, if you'll forgive the\nmixed metaphor. (This doesn't explain why history should commit suicide,\nthough.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right, I should make plain that IMHO the ending works well for the story on\ninitial reading--it is a zinger, it seems out of the blue, and it \"brings\nthe war home\" to an expat. It plays on the title. The first paragraph\nlinks Clio with history, sex appeal, and fire.\n\nBut right after that initial rush, second thoughts begin to creep in, and\nthe logic of it seems to suffer." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "(The Peace people seem to require the following conditions: a battle-front\nwhere they can appear and cause confusion; soldiers to see them and react,\nand die in favorable ratios [that is, better than one soldier for one Peace\nperson]; cameras to film the whole thing for viewers." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Realistically, it seems like a poor tactic. All the soldiers have to do is\nshoot anybody approaching their lines who doesn't stop when ordered to. And\nin any case, the bombers only get a favorable ratio if the soldiers are\nstupid, like the ones who tried to rape the girl. Its value, if any, seems\nto be primarily symbolic: \"Look how dedicated we are.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It is a tactic to push the soldiers to commit more atrocities (killing\nwhite-flag waving civilians, even naked civilians), which will further\nerode civilian support for the government and boost support for the rebels.\nThat is, it is propaganda: demoralize/terrorize/brutalize the soldiers, win\nthe hearts and minds of the civilians through manipulation. It is that\nwhole \"Life is cheap to them\" thing, writ large. It is one reason why the\nrebels are assured to win. (Another reason is Clio's presence inside the\ncompany, but there's that problem again.)\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] } ] }