{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2920",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2920,
    "subject": "lost in the big words",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-02-05T00:03:00+00:00",
    "last": "2002-02-05T06:11:42+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-71@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi",
        "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-05T00:03:00+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) lost in the big words",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Joe Eull wrote:\nThe scene you're talking about\nis a particularly affecting one. Without re-reading, Severian seems to hate\nJolenta for her relationship with Dorcas, and more importantly for the lust\nshe engenders in him is a reflection of her desire to be desired. He says\nshe made a tribadist of Dorcas, and nearly an algophilist of himself.\n(lesbian, ghoul-lover respectively). My girlfriend at the time stopped\nreading the book at this point and handed it back to me saying it was\ndisgusting. I don't blame her, Severian is talking about killing her and\nraping her dead body for spite."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Joe, your memory is quite good, but your word-hoard contains a few false coins.\n\n\"Algophilist\" is not \"ghoul-lover,\" nor does it function as a synonym for\n\"necrophiliac\" as you suggest.\n\n\"Algo-\" here means \"pain\"; an \"algophobic\" is one who morbidly fears pain.\nBy changing the \"-phobia\" part into its commonly known opposite, \"-philia,\"\nwe get a word meaning \"lover of pain.\"\n\nThis is a tad ambiguous, since it might apply to both a masochist and a\nsadist. Severian's use of the term clearly marks it as a synonym for\nsadist--so why not use \"sadist\" instead?\n\nBecause sadist is one of those words which comes from a name, and as such\nit would be too time-specific and jarring for the milieu of Urth.  Likewise\nthe word lesbian, which shows up in your example.\n\nThus \"algophilist\" is \"sadist\" without mentioning de Sade.\n\nThe larger point thus becomes clear: algophilists are =forbidden= to become\ntorturers (those sick little amateurs who try to join the guild are turned\naway, iirc). So her effect on him is to threaten that professional part of\nhimself with a personality trait that is forbidden by the guild--he goes up\nto the limit and nearly plunges over.\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-77@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Joe Eull",
        "address": "lo_phan17 at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-05T06:11:42+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) lost in the big words",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0202-71@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" >"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"Algophilist\" is not \"ghoul-lover,\" nor does it function as a synonym for\n\"necrophiliac\" as you suggest.\n\n\"Algo-\" here means \"pain\"; an \"algophobic\" is one who morbidly fears pain.\nBy changing the \"-phobia\" part into its commonly known opposite,\n\"-philia,\"\nwe get a word meaning \"lover of pain.\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Mantis your corrections are both painful and purifying. Of course, you're\nright. I've been going with the definition of \"algolphilist\" all this time.\nProbably a result of having the word in mind and looking it up later in a\ndictionary.\n\nJoe"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}