{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2922",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2922,
    "subject": "For Matthew: references for sexuality",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-02-05T05:21:14+00:00",
    "last": "2002-02-05T13:02:28+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-73@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-05T05:21:14+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) For Matthew: references for sexuality",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hey Matthew, there are a TON of different places that comment on this.  The \neasiest way to get a good (understandable no matter what your background in \nhormones and genetics) sample is to go to http://www.google.com and type in \n\"Finger length and sexuality\" as a search.  You will find a ton of stuff. It \nis, of course, controversial, then look up \"Womb memory and sexuality\".  There \nare the original scholarly journals which are a bit too complicated for most \npeople, but they are summarized nicely in the news articles on them.  Check it \nout!  In my undergraduate education, we made \"fruity\" fruit flies - a spliced \ngene can make male fruit flies mount other male fruit flies.  Of course, as a \nCatholic, I believe in free will no matter what proclivity we may have, but I \ndo accept that we cannot choose many innate things, and that who we are \nattracted to is not something we can really choose, and is therefore not an \nact of exercising free will. You should be able to find the basic research on \nthe net if you want to.\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-79@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "matthew.malthouse",
        "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-05T13:02:28+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) For Matthew: references for sexuality",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0202-73@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 05/02/2002 05:21:14 maa32 wrote:\nHey Matthew, there are a TON of different places that comment on this.  The\neasiest way to get a good (understandable no matter what your background in\nhormones and genetics) sample is to go to http://www.google.com and type in"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Anyone can google, that's what they say, easy.\nAnyone can google, any old day, easy.\n\nIt's all so simple:\nRelax, let go, let fly!\nSo someone tell me, why can't I?\n\nI can dance a tango, I can read Greek, easy.\nI can slay a dragon any old week, easy!\n\nWhat's hard is simple,\nWhat's natural comes hard.\nMaybe you could show me how to let go,\nLower my guard, learn to be free.\nMaybe if you google, google for me."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"Finger length and sexuality\" as a search."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Adding \"peer review\" and \"journal\" has interesting effects on the search.  For\nexample all the pages from Berkeley Dept of Psych recorded in Google have been\ntaken down.\n\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/PHI340mirror/finger.html  is instructive.\n\nYou will find a ton of stuff. It"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "is, of course, controversial, then look up \"Womb memory and sexuality\".  There\nare the original scholarly journals which are a bit too complicated for most\npeople, but they are summarized nicely in the news articles on them."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The initial report in \"Nature\" was incorrect.\n\nCan't find any peer review of the matter.\n\nStatistical significance questioned, as is the rather casual methodology.\n\nAnd even ignoring all that, the differences were noted in lesbians contrary to\nyour implication of a generalised case or demonstrable correlation in male\nhomosexuality - apparently the error that the editors of \"Nature\" made.\n\nIssues around sexuality are contentious enough already.  Presenting as fact\nmatters that remain speculative; then misrepresenting those matters is at best\nirresponsible.\n\n\nMatthew\n - With apologies to Stephen Sondheim"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}