{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2930",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2930,
    "subject": "speaking beast / Hyacinth as man?",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-02-06T22:42:47+00:00",
    "last": "2002-02-07T13:16:40+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-93@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-06T22:42:47+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) speaking beast / Hyacinth as man?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Anyway, was any consensus ever reached in the old days about the phantom \npresence of Triskele being able to \"speak\" in Severian's dream in Shadow of \nthe Torturer? Is the friend with dripping jaws definitely Triskele? I ask this \nbecause that presence in the mine at Saltus which Severian awakens has the \nsame kind of subterannean associations, and I know that has been discussed a \nlot.\n\nAlso, I wanted to apologize if I offended anyone about bringing up that study; \nit seems the media should be blamed rather than making fun of me for using a \nsearch engine with a poem. Sniff.  You have to admit that without technology \nlike that we could never have our enlightened discussions - and I only brought \nit up to a list of maybe 25 people, while the media reaches hundreds of \nmillions. I was only interested in the idea that a mother's behavior and past \ninfluences the devlopment of her child; it obviously does during pregnancy, \nbut this study analyzed events that occured before gestation - I wasn't really \nconcerned with the specifics. (Wolfe seems to believe that behavior affects \ndevelopment).\n\nWhile we are on this topic, there is an interesting thing going on in \nNightside the Long Sun which involves \"boy toys\" in mythology.  When Silk \nbreaks into Bloods house, he runs into a statues of Catamitus and Ganymede \n(both young boys who have relations with older men; Ganymede was Zeus' \ncupbearer and special \"plaything\").  At first this seems to obviously invoke \nMusk as Blood's special \"friend\", but THIS IS WHERE HE RUNS INTO HYACINTH ... \nand in myth, if I am not mistaken, Hyacinthus is another one of those \"boy \ntoys\". Chenille makes the comment that Hyacinth used to be very flat before \nCrane doctored her up ... Is there a possibility that Hyacinth could have been \na man at one time?  \nHere is the story of Hyacinthus:\n\n\"A Greek vegetation divinity who was loved by both Apollo and Zephyrus. He \nreturned the love of Apollo, but not of Zephyrus.\n When he and Apollo were throwing the discus together, Zephyrus blew Apollo's \ndiscus out of its course. It struck the head of Hyacinthus and killed him. \nFrom his blood Apollo made spring up a flower, the hyacinth. \"\n\nOK, what we have here is Apollo (and his obvious associations in Wolfe's work) \ncontending with THE WIND, while a flower blooms up, though trod under the \nshepherds heel.  Ho ho ho.  Notice how many times the Wind comes up \nprominently in the Short Sun: it's in almost all of the prophecies, and is \neven mentioned as one of the primary differences between Blue and Urth.  Now, \nif we accept that Apollo might have some connection with someone like Severian \nor someone who comes to associate himself with Severian, like Silk, do we get \nan accurate image of anything?  Here is my question: COULD Hyacinth have been \naltered more than we suspect by Dr Crane, and if so, could her death have \ndirectly resulted from the awkward place in which she was placed: being a \nloyal wife of Calde Silk while still serving enemy forces?\n\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-102@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Michael Straight",
        "address": "straight at email.unc.edu"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-07T13:16:40+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) speaking beast / Hyacinth as man?",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0202-93@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, maa32 wrote:\nOK, what we have here is Apollo (and his obvious associations in Wolfe's work) \ncontending with THE WIND"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Also, Apollo vs. the Wind makes me think of Severian vs. Typhon\n(\"typhoon\")\n\n-Rostrum"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}