{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2966", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2966, "subject": "More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-02-19T12:18:12+00:00", "last": "2002-02-19T17:19:16+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tom Foster", "address": "t.foster2 at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-02-19T12:18:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Following on from my question about this the other day, I have now read the\nfirst 150 pages or so of RTTW. Two passages stood out with respect to the\nnarrator's eating habits, both of which concern him eating/drinking\nenthusiastically. These are just about the only times I can remember that\nthe narrator feels this way. The two instances occur at the beginning of the\nchapter 'Haunting Dorp', in which he enthusiastically describes all the food\nthat he is brought as \"a feast\", and in the chapter 'Dark Empty Rooms', in\nwhich he drinks wine several times. One of these instances occurs in his\npresent, and one in his past. I'm not sure what to make of it all, but it\ndoes seem strange.\n\nI've been reading a lot of conversations in the archives and was interested\nto read about John Clute's review of IGJ, in which he apparently stated that\nit was fairly evident that the protagonist of the books is an inhumi. There\nwas some debate about it, but what do people make of it now? I'm not at all\nconvinced, though I can see several arguments to support it, as well as\nseveral to dispute it (the obvious ones being the eating/drinking and the\nability to write neatly, though perhaps this could be achieved through being\nan inhumi trapped in a human's body?) One thing that struck me as slightly\nsinister is a sentence at the end of OBW. The narrator writes \"Brother and\nSister should have made me feel younger, as the girl did. I felt old\ninstead\". It isn't clear who the 'girl' he is referring to might be\n(Seawrack?), but I think that one could interpret this statement in several\nways...\n\n\nTom" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-02-19T12:28:02+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it is possible that when Horn went to Green he was sucked dry by an\ninhumu and thereafter merely thought he was human.\n\nI cannot pin down the spot but I think it might be after he leaves the City\nand is lost in the jungle. The rest of his striving on Green is the\nstriving of an inhumu who thinks he is a man.\n\nSilk-on-Blue is therefore a triple hybrid: Silk has the inhumu's soul: the\ninhumu has Horn's soul. Hence Silk carries many inhumu characteristics,\nincluding reluctance to eat.\n\nSilk-on-blue is of course *physically* human, since he begets children at\nGaon.\n\n\n hartshorn\n\n\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Tom Foster\" \nTo: \n\nI've been reading a lot of conversations in the archives and was\ninterested\nto read about John Clute's review of IGJ, in which he apparently stated\nthat\nit was fairly evident that the protagonist of the books is an inhumi." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "was some debate about it, but what do people make of it now? I'm not at\nall\nconvinced, though I can see several arguments to support it, as well as\nseveral to dispute it (the obvious ones being the eating/drinking and the\nability to write neatly, though perhaps this could be achieved through\nbeing\nan inhumi trapped in a human's body?) One thing that struck me as\nslightly\nsinister is a sentence at the end of OBW." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-02-19T13:26:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Andy Robertson wrote:\nI think it is possible that when Horn went to Green he was sucked dry by an\ninhumu and thereafter merely thought he was human." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think the inhumu soul-stealing works that way. \n\nFor one thing, there's no other evidence of an inhumu gaining memories (or\neven much personality) from the person he/she's drained. Fava feels the\nurge to appear like an old lady after she drinks from Mora's grandmother,\nbut she doesn't show any signs of taking on the grandmother's memories or\npersonality.\n\nSecondly, if there's any sense in which an inhumu gains personality from\nsomeone who has been drained of blood, it is in the second generation. \nKrait is drawn to Horn, and is so much like a son to him--extending to the\nlove/hate relationship, because his mother drained Sinew. I guess you\ncould say that Horn was drained by an inhumu who subsequently had children\nand that one of those children then had adventures on Green thinking he\nwas Horn (and somehow getting hold of Horn's neighbor ring) and then sent\nhis hybrid soul into Silk, but that seems to be wandering pretty far into\nfan fiction territory.\n\nThe strongest objection to this idea is that, based on the actions of\ninhumi when they spirit travel and gain human bodies, an inhumu spirit in\nSilk's body would revel in eating and having sex and doing all the other\nhuman things it was unable to do in its reptilian body. If there were an\ninhumu in there, Silk would be eating more, not less, so you'd need some\nother explanation for why he's not eating.\n\nTo me, the \"Silk is used to fasting, but Horn isn't\" explanation is the\nsimplest. \n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-02-19T13:50:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Michael Straight wrote:\nSecondly, if there's any sense in which an inhumu gains personality from\nsomeone who has been drained of blood, it is in the second generation. \nKrait is drawn to Horn, and is so much like a son to him--extending to the\nlove/hate relationship, because his mother drained Sinew. I guess you\ncould say that Horn was drained by an inhumu who subsequently had children\nand that one of those children then had adventures on Green thinking he\nwas Horn (and somehow getting hold of Horn's neighbor ring) and then sent\nhis hybrid soul into Silk, but that seems to be wandering pretty far into\nfan fiction territory." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yet another problem with this theory. When the narrator and Hoof and\nJahlee travel to Green and visit Sinew's city, they go out to the lander\nwhere Horn died and retrieve the Neighbor ring and leave it with\nSinew. Surely people would have noticed and made a fuss if Horn's body\nhad actually been a dead inhumu.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-02-19T13:54:52+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Tom Foster wrote:\nOne thing that struck me as slightly\nsinister is a sentence at the end of OBW. The narrator writes \"Brother and\nSister should have made me feel younger, as the girl did. I felt old\ninstead\". It isn't clear who the 'girl' he is referring to might be\n(Seawrack?), but I think that one could interpret this statement in several\nways..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think \"the girl\" there is the concubine the Rajan escaped with. I\nagree, that sentence does lend itself to sinister interpretation.\n\nI don't think the narrator is an inhumu, but I'm starting to think Wolfe\nmeant to tease us with the suspicion that he might be.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-02-19T17:19:16+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) More on Silk-Horn's eating habits", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:54 AM 2/19/2002, you wrote:\nOn Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Tom Foster wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "One thing that struck me as slightly\nsinister is a sentence at the end of OBW. The narrator writes \"Brother and\nSister should have made me feel younger, as the girl did. I felt old\ninstead\". It isn't clear who the 'girl' he is referring to might be\n(Seawrack?), but I think that one could interpret this statement in several\nways..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think \"the girl\" there is the concubine the Rajan escaped with. I\nagree, that sentence does lend itself to sinister interpretation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe, but I think the simplest is the best here. An old man with a young \nconcubine is surely going to feel younger. And being around little children \nalso makes an old man feel younger. Or, such experiences can make one feel \none's age. In fact, depending on one's mood and the time of the day, one \ncan go back and forth. Wolfe's an Old Guy now, and I'm sure he feels \nyounger around his grandchildren. (I assume no concubines are present in \nhis life!).\n\nNutria" } ] } ] }