{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2989",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 2989,
    "subject": "crucifixion",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-02-24T21:16:23+00:00",
    "last": "2002-02-25T10:27:49+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-219@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-24T21:16:23+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) crucifixion",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Someone commented a little while ago on the obvious lack of a crucifixion in \nthe allegorical schema of the Sun books... and it depends how allegorical you \nwant to get.  Terminus Est is obviously a cross, and it causes Severian to \nstumble three times when he is fleeing thrax through the underground dungeon \nwhich is being flooded.  When little Severian dies, Severian plants the sword \nin the ground and uses it to step up, just like the cross allows Jesus to \nascend (indirectly, of course; I am aware of his 3 day detour). The sword \nreally does seem like a cross planted in the ground on that particular \noccassion, especially in light of the \"sacrifice\" of little Severian.  Indeed, \nI think Sword of the Lictor in its entirety is about 70% allegory.  Jeez, \nTyphon even asks the same questions as Satan.  \nWhen Severian is walking around the ship on The Urth of the New Sun, he is \nsuddenly grabbed by some force and his arms are brought out to both his sides \nas he is suspended in the air.  This is also a type of crucifixion scene, \nwhere his eidolon is disbursed before being reconstituted elsewhere.  (I would \nalso argue that Wolfe tries to tie in the symbol of crucifixion with that of \nthe flood by constantly having Severian lose his sword in water; eschatology \nand genesis, as it were).\nIn the Short Sun books, I would argue that the crucifixion imagery (and let us \nnot forget the saving aspects of crucifixion) occur when ...... can you see \nwhere I'm going? .......\nHorn gets eaten by a tree (remember the Dante allegorical association: the \ntree of knowledge of good and evil was used to make the cross of Jesus)and \nfalls into a pit where he is trapped, before he rises. He is probably killed \nand resurrected there. Ultimately, resting at the base of a tree at the end of \nOn Blue's Water is a more gentle and affirming way for Horn's spirit to move \non into Babbie. But the idea that being strung up on a tree, followed by being \ncast into hell, matches that Horn scene on the island pretty well, after which \nhe seems to be part of \"another world\" in his perceptions.  It also creates \nthe \"saved people\" (in my analysis, anyway).\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0202-224@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Joshua A. Solomon",
        "address": "j.a.solomon at city.ac.uk"
      },
      "date": "2002-02-25T10:27:49+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: crucifixion",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0202-219@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>\nDate: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:16:23 -0700\n\nWhen little Severian dies, Severian plants the sword\nin the ground ... The sword\nreally does seem like a cross planted in the ground on that particular\noccassion, especially in light of the \"sacrifice\" of little Severian."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "In \"The Changeling\" (1970) Wolfe also uses (toy) swords in the ground to\nimply crucifixions (Calvary, in particular).\n\njs"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Joshua A. Solomon\nDepartment of Optometry and Visual Science\nCity University\nLondon EC1V 0HB\nVoice: (44) 20 7040 0192\nFax: (44) 20 7040 0182\nJ.A.Solomon at city.ac.uk\nhttp://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~solomon\n\n\n-- "
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}