{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/2995", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 2995, "subject": "Lupine Music", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-02-26T02:59:45+00:00", "last": "2002-02-26T18:28:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-02-26T02:59:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Lupine Music", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "While we're briefly on the subject of music, church and otherwise:\n 1. My claim that the Lutheran tradition has produced the most good \nhymns was not a comment on current hymnals, which are all smorgasbords. The \nmodern Anglican and Methodist are quite good, as is the Christian Reformed \nPsalter/Hymnal (which has the added advantage of the French/Genevan and \nDutch traditions) -- but many of the hymns in these books that people \nconsider the richest are in fact Lutheran in origin -- and there's a reason \nfor this. There's good stuff in all traditions, from Sarum Chant to Black \nGospel. There was, however, a certain \"peak\" of hymnody, both musically and \ntextually, in the late Renaissance and early Baroque in the Lutheran areas \nof Yerp -- not in the Catholic areas, because they were stuck with earlier \nplainsong, and not in Calvinism, because they sang only psalms. And I mean \npre-Bach. Bach is too rich for true congregational hymnody, and he \nstraightens out the original jazzy rhythms.\n I'll get to Wolfe, but for the interest of the few: Luther was a \nmusician himself, and an excellent poet. He set in motion a church \ntradition that prized musicians more than any other tradition had done \nbefore or since. The results were predictable over the next century and a \nhalf. These were educated and trained musicians and poets, who had a \nsensitivity to what congregations of ordinary people could sing -- even if \nthey also wrote for courts and professional choirs. They took folk \ntraditions and Catholic plainsong traditions and moved them up a few \nnotches. If you play the piano, you owe it to yourself to get a copy of the \nold Missouri Synod \"Lutheran Hymnal\" (1940) and just play though it. You \nwill be astounded: at the texts, at the melodies and their rapid harmonic \nmotion, and especially at the jazzy rhythms.\n But let me remove my \"minor in music history\" and \"Professor of \nLiturgical Theology\" hat, and add for everyone's interest:\n 2. I wrote Wolfe a decade ago a list of questions, including what \nkinds of music he likes best. (Jack Vance, for instance, is a fan of \nauthentic improvised jazz.) I wondered if Ockeghem, or Bach, or Mozart, or \nShostakovich, or Messiaen, or bluegrass, or Gregorian chant, or what? (I \ndidn't bother to ask about rock; I'd read enough Wolfe already). He replied \nthat he favors filk, and that was his hobby music. So, SF all the way when \nit comes to old Gene!\n 3. Hey! Did anybody see \"Futurama\" two weeks ago? Leela's first \nname turns out to be Turanga. Turangalila (pronounced Turanga Leela) is the \nname of a 10-movement symphony by Olivier Messiaen (an absolutely WILD \npiece of music, but hardly standard repertoire; a cult classic, so to \nspeak). I was astounded at this allusion. It can't be a coincidence. I \nwonder if \"turangalila\" appears in any context other than as the title of \nMessiaen's \"hindu symphony.\" I've never heard of it, if so. Messiaen on \nFuturama? Amazing. (No musical quotes on the show, however. Still, my jaw \ndropt!)\n\nNutria the Almost-Nutricious" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-02-26T18:28:06+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Lupine Music", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "PatNutWrit ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My claim that the Lutheran tradition has produced the most good hymns\nwas not a comment on current hymnals, which are all smorgasbords ...\nLuther was a musician himself, and an excellent poet. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Need I point out: So was Wesley? Probably why Methodist churches to this\nday have such a strong musical tradition. And, btw, my point about how\ngood the music in Methodist services is (at least in my somewhat limited\nexperience) shouldn't be taken as a comment on the selection so much as\non the performance standards of choir, accompanist, random soloists,\netc." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "2. I wrote Wolfe a decade ago a list of questions, including what kinds\nof music he likes best ... He replied that he favors filk, and that was\nhis hobby music. So, SF all the way when it comes to old Gene!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Now, that may be the single scariest thing about GW I have ever heard.\nIs he also a Sherman-Yankovic fan, we must wonder?\n\n-- Blattid" } ] } ] }