{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3018", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3018, "subject": "RTTW - two points/questions", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-03-07T15:07:10+00:00", "last": "2002-03-07T16:25:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tom Foster", "address": "t.foster2 at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-03-07T15:07:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) RTTW - two points/questions", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I've just finished RTTW and am still taking it all in. A couple of\nthings I wanted to mention:\n\nDid anyone else think that the way Hoof talked about Oreb at the end of RTTW\nwas very reminiscent of the way Horn talked about Hyacinth at the end of\nTBOTLS? Throughout TBOTLS and TBOTSS both Oreb and Hycanith come across as\nvery likeable characters (though admittedly Hyacinth has some obvious\nflaws), only for them to be 'debunked' by, in the first case Horn, and in\nthe second case Hoof, come the end of the narratives. This seems very odd\nand I wonder if there is a deeper meaning to it than simply Wolfe showing\nthat all is not necessarily what is seems, and that people (and animals\ntoo!) should not be taken at face value...\n\nCan someone explain to me exactly what the situation with Nettle is come the\nend of RTTW? I didn't follow this at all, despite re-reading several times.\nSilk-Horn says (of the information imparted to him by the Red Sun Whorl\nScylla) \"I would never have used it while Nettle was alive\". Later when he\nasks Daisy to say his goodbyes to Hide and Hoof for him he says that \"Nettle\nis making her own, and cannot be bothered with mine\". Then at the very end\nof the book, Daisy concludes \"they are in it, I hope, he and his eerie young\nwoman, Nettle, the old sibyl, and their bird...\" How come does he decide to\nuse this information despite Nettle still being alive? Because he finally\nrealises that he is Silk, and is therefore not bound by the same bond to\nNettle? And why would Nettle want to go off with him and Seawrack? If\nanyone can shed some light on this I'd be grateful.\n\nOverall, I really enjoyed the books (not surprisingly since I love pretty\nmuch everything Wolfe has written), but I still think overall I preferred\nTBOTLS (I suspect I'm probably one of the few people who really love TBOTLS,\nthough I hope I'm wrong). I don't think TBOTNS is directly comparable, since\nit is in a league of its own, somewhat. *Really* looking forward to \"The\nWizard Knight\"...\n\n\nTom" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-03-07T15:38:22+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) RTTW - two points/questions", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Tom Foster wrote:\nCan someone explain to me exactly what the situation with Nettle is come the\nend of RTTW? I didn't follow this at all, despite re-reading several times.\nSilk-Horn says (of the information imparted to him by the Red Sun Whorl\nScylla) \"I would never have used it while Nettle was alive\". Later when he\nasks Daisy to say his goodbyes to Hide and Hoof for him he says that \"Nettle\nis making her own, and cannot be bothered with mine\". Then at the very end\nof the book, Daisy concludes \"they are in it, I hope, he and his eerie young\nwoman, Nettle, the old sibyl, and their bird...\" How come does he decide to\nuse this information despite Nettle still being alive? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My take on it is this:\n\nHorn is completely dead at the end (Silk says, \"in some sense, I killed\ntheir father\"). This is why Silk is reluctant to intrude on Nettle saying\ngoodbye to her sons. \n\nHowever, Nettle was as much a disciple of Silk as Horn was. Horn says\nseveral times that if he hadn't gone to search for Silk, Nettle would\nhave. With Horn dead and her sons grown and married, Nettle decides to go\nwith Silk as a disciple, not as a wife. (Note in the conversation with\nPatera Remora, Silk pretty much acknowledges he hasn't had conjugal\nrelations with Nettle.)\n\nSimilarly, with Horn dead, there's no reason for Silk to feel Nettle\nshould come between him and Seawrack. Why Silk is interested in Seawrack\nis another question. I'm guessing he's somehow inherited Horn's\nattraction to her -- he's heard her song and is entranced. \n\nAnd why is Seawrack interested in Silk? Maybe for the same reason\neveryone likes Silk. Or maybe it's because Scylla told Silk how to\ncontact the Mother and the Mother gave Seawrack to Silk the way she\noriginally gave her to Horn.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-03-07T16:25:45+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) RTTW - two points/questions", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A Fool Rushes In..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Can someone explain to me exactly what the situation with Nettle is come\nthe end of RTTW? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah. She goes off with the Narrator and the others to the Whorl." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I didn't follow this at all, despite re-reading several times. Silk-Horn \nsays (of the information imparted to him by the Red Sun Whorl Scylla) \n\"I would never have used it while Nettle was alive\". How come does he \ndecide to use this information despite Nettle still being alive? Because\nhe finally realises that he is Silk, and is therefore not bound by the\nsame bond to Nettle? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ummmm... Actually, I suspect this is a reversal of what we've seen in \nseveral other places, the Narrator saying \"Hyacinth\" when Horn \nclearly(?) meant to say \"Nettle.\" The confused Silkhorn personality\nseems prone to this kind of slip.\n\n--Dan'l\nAnd why would Nettle want to go off with him and Seawrack? If\nanyone can shed some light on this I'd be grateful.\n\nOverall, I really enjoyed the books (not surprisingly since I love pretty\nmuch everything Wolfe has written), but I still think overall I preferred\nTBOTLS (I suspect I'm probably one of the few people who really love TBOTLS,\nthough I hope I'm wrong). I don't think TBOTNS is directly comparable, since\nit is in a league of its own, somewhat. *Really* looking forward to \"The\nWizard Knight\"...\n\n\nTom" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "-- " } ] } ] }