Subject: (urth) RTTW - two points/questions

From: Tom Foster <t.foster2 at ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:07:10 +0000

Well, I've just finished RTTW and am still taking it all in. A couple of
things I wanted to mention:

Did anyone else think that the way Hoof talked about Oreb at the end of RTTW
was very reminiscent of the way Horn talked about Hyacinth at the end of
TBOTLS? Throughout TBOTLS and TBOTSS both Oreb and Hycanith come across as
very likeable characters (though admittedly Hyacinth has some obvious
flaws), only for them to be 'debunked' by, in the first case Horn, and in
the second case Hoof, come the end of the narratives. This seems very odd
and I wonder if there is a deeper meaning to it than simply Wolfe showing
that all is not necessarily what is seems, and that people (and animals
too!) should not be taken at face value...

Can someone explain to me exactly what the situation with Nettle is come the
end of RTTW?  I didn't follow this at all, despite re-reading several times.
Silk-Horn says (of the information imparted to him by the Red Sun Whorl
Scylla) "I would never have used it while Nettle was alive". Later when he
asks Daisy to say his goodbyes to Hide and Hoof for him he says that "Nettle
is making her own, and cannot be bothered with mine". Then at the very end
of the book, Daisy concludes "they are in it, I hope, he and his eerie young
woman, Nettle, the old sibyl, and their bird..."  How come does he decide to
use this information despite Nettle still being alive? Because he finally
realises that he is Silk, and is therefore not bound by the same bond to
Nettle?  And why would Nettle want to go off with him and Seawrack?  If
anyone can shed some light on this I'd be grateful.

Overall, I really enjoyed the books (not surprisingly since I love pretty
much everything Wolfe has written), but I still think overall I preferred
TBOTLS (I suspect I'm probably one of the few people who really love TBOTLS,
though I hope I'm wrong). I don't think TBOTNS is directly comparable, since
it is in a league of its own, somewhat. *Really* looking forward to "The
Wizard Knight"...

Tom

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:38:22 +0000

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Tom Foster wrote:

> use this information despite Nettle still being alive? 

My take on it is this:

Horn is completely dead at the end (Silk says, "in some sense, I killed
their father").  This is why Silk is reluctant to intrude on Nettle saying
goodbye to her sons.   

However, Nettle was as much a disciple of Silk as Horn was.  Horn says
several times that if he hadn't gone to search for Silk, Nettle would
have.  With Horn dead and her sons grown and married, Nettle decides to go
with Silk as a disciple, not as a wife.  (Note in the conversation with
Patera Remora, Silk pretty much acknowledges he hasn't had conjugal
relations with Nettle.)

Similarly, with Horn dead, there's no reason for Silk to feel Nettle
should come between him and Seawrack.  Why Silk is interested in Seawrack
is another question.  I'm guessing he's somehow inherited Horn's
attraction to her -- he's heard her song and is entranced.  

And why is Seawrack interested in Silk?  Maybe for the same reason
everyone likes Silk.  Or maybe it's because Scylla told Silk how to
contact the Mother and the Mother gave Seawrack to Silk the way she
originally gave her to Horn.

-Rostrum

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:25:45 +0000

A Fool Rushes In...

> Can someone explain to me exactly what the situation with Nettle is come
> the end of RTTW?  

Yeah. She goes off with the Narrator and the others to the Whorl.

> I didn't follow this at all, despite re-reading several times. Silk-Horn 
> says (of the information imparted to him by the Red Sun Whorl Scylla) 
> "I would never have used it while Nettle was alive". How come does he 
> decide to use this information despite Nettle still being alive? Because
> he finally realises that he is Silk, and is therefore not bound by the
> same bond to Nettle?  

Ummmm... Actually, I suspect this is a reversal of what we've seen in 
several other places, the Narrator saying "Hyacinth" when Horn 
clearly(?) meant to say "Nettle." The confused Silkhorn personality
seems prone to this kind of slip.

--Dan'l
And why would Nettle want to go off with him and Seawrack?  If
anyone can shed some light on this I'd be grateful.

Tom

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