{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3045", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3045, "subject": "Uncollected Wolfe", "messages": 7, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-03-18T15:00:53+00:00", "last": "2002-05-01T16:18:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-03-18T15:00:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps my least favorite bit from Mr. Gevers's excellent interview with\nWolfe was when he said he didn't see a new short story collection on the\nhorizon (although perhaps that's just Wolfe's usual modesty - note his\nclaim that Wizard Knight might not sell--as if!). \n\nThere's an awful lot of uncollected short stories out there, so I was\nwondering if those of you who have tracked them down might suggest which\nare the most worth chasing. What are some of the best Wolfe stories not\nfound in the common anthologies (e.g., the ones I have):\n\nEndangered Species\nIsland of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories\nStrange Travelers\nStories from the Old Hotel\nCastle of Days\n\nand where can they be found?\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-03-18T16:38:25+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Rostrum wrote:\nThere's an awful lot of uncollected short stories out there, so I was\nwondering if those of you who have tracked them down might suggest which\nare the most worth chasing. What are some of the best Wolfe stories not\nfound in the common anthologies (e.g., the ones I have):" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hey, wait a second! Jonathan Laidlow had a nice list of uncollected Wolfe\nfiction at Ultan's Library back before it moved, but today I looked and I\ncouldn't find the list. Was it removed for some important reason (if it\nwas in deference to a new edition of URTHMAN EXTRAORDINARY, the =essential=\n[and =inexpensive=] Gene Wolfe bibliography, then I say we start agitating\nfor the release of a new edition!) or just lost in the shuffle? (IIRC it\nwas not annotated with regard to story content, but this itself could be an\ninteresting new project!)\n\nAnd speaking of Ultan's List, the Borski response to Wright's 5HC essay has\nbeen promised in the next few hours for a month now . . . shades of time\ndilation, as Jonathan edges closer to the speed of light! \n\nFinally, a tidbit on \"It's Very Clean\": this story has allusions to\nDisneyland, and as such it falls in with those other Wolfe stories, big and\nsmall.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-03-21T16:46:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Michael Andre-Driussi wrote:\nHey, wait a second! Jonathan Laidlow had a nice list of uncollected Wolfe\nfiction at Ultan's Library back before it moved, but today I looked and I\ncouldn't find the list. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Aw, c'mon, mantis. Surely you don't need a list to recommend a few of\nWolfe's better uncollected short works that are worth tracking down?\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-03-21T17:45:03+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As I was posting my Rostrum's pitchfork list, what did I find already there:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Aw, c'mon, mantis. Surely you don't need a list to recommend a few of\nWolfe's better uncollected short works that are worth tracking down?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Huh. Hmm. My ranking, you say. I'll see what I can do. But\ndon't expect anything today, I'm already waaay over time-budget here!\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at charter.net" }, "date": "2002-04-28T18:52:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "More mini-reviews of some of Wolfe's uncollected short fiction, or as I've\ntaken to calling them, lupets.\n\n\"Eleventh City.\" The fourth of Wolfe's Sam Cooper stories, featuring an\ninteresting play on a Biblical incident (Matthew's casting of demons from\nthe swine herd) and neat title. But are we to believe that Wendell Zane--who\nasks to be called Dell--is the Devil or his surrogate?\n\n\"The Fat Magician.\" The third Sam Cooper story, also told in epistolary\nstyle like the above. Much about this one I still do not understand. Why has\nFat Ernst--a stage magician and safehouse operator for Jews and\ntransvestites during WWII--been demonized by the local populace? What is the\nnature of the information Gertrun is keeping for \"next time\"? (Apparently,\nit has something to do with the removal of Ernst's body from the\ncrematorium???) And those of you who have started to think of GW as a cranky\nold man may be less than pleased by the sermonette at the end. (\"In the\ncentury we are just now closing out, we ordinary men and women have been in\nmuch greater danger from our own governments than from all the criminals in\nthe world.\") Still, I liked it for the most part, and enjoyed the tip to\nAvram Davidson's Boss in the Wall.\n\n\"A Fish Story.\" Is the key to understanding this short short to be found in\nthe name \"Rob Salmon\"? (Or something like that--can't find my F&SF with the\nstory at the moment) I.e., do ghosts return to the place they're \"born\" too?\n\n\"The Friendship Light.\" Modern-day Loki vs.Thor, with guest appearance by\nnot-so-modern Harpies. Would have worked better if Wolfe could have found\nsome other way of revealing what happens to Jack other than the clunky,\nless-than-believable, tape-recorded-oral-diary-method.\n\n\"Going to the Beach.\" Wry commentary on the place and value of writers in a\nbleak automated future. Liked it when I first read it; still like it now.\nReminds me for some reason of the movie Brazil.\n\n\"Houston, 1943.\" One of Wolfe's finer-wrought horror pieces, with many\nautobiographical elements. Unfortunately, because I discuss the story at\nlength in a forthcoming essay to appear elsewhere, I will refrain from\nfurther comment other than to say that the more you know about the practice\nand belief system of voudon, the better you will understand this story.\n\n\"It's Very Clean.\" Another version of Hans Christian Andersen's \"The Tin\nSoldier.\" (There's also the one in tBotNS.) Miles to the rescue!\n\n\"The Night Chough.\" Almost no one agreed with me that this story supported\nmy early notion that Scylla was riding Oreb and several people nearly\nself-combusted insisting this could not be so. It will therefore be\ninteresting to see how the story reads now that the Short Sun trilogy has\nconcluded. Wish Wolfe would set more of his stories in any of the Solar\nmilieus, as this one is lily.\n\n\"Petting Zoo.\" Agree with mantis to a point--the story does seem like a\nCalvin-comes-of-age fable, except that the last paragraph also ominously\nsuggests that mankind no longer rules the Earth, robots do.\n\n\"Pocketsfull of Diamonds.\" If the stories in _Strange Attraction_ were\nunattributed, and we had to guess from a list of the book's authors who\nwrote what, I would have said that this one was written by either Neil\nGaiman or Ray Bradbury. Not that it seems atypical Wolfe; it doesn't,\nespecially with the archetypal nature of the sideshow attractions. But the\nterrain seems more Bradburyese/Gaimanesque, especially with the talking\ncotton candy and taffy apple.\n\n\"The Sailer Who Sailed After the Sun.\" My least favorite lupet of the bunch.\nA monkey takes the place of the whaler, then becomes parade lead for\nEgyptian sun god train. mantis, please explain your thumbs up.\n\n\"The Seraph from Its Sepulchre.\" (Please note the correct title, which no\none ever seems to get right.) Wolfe's version of \"The Secret Sharer,\" only\ninstead of taking place at sea, it's on a planet encircling Mirzam, in Canis\nMajor. I note with pleasure how seraph is anagrammatizable from Sephora (the\nship in \"Secret Sharer\") and how Father Joseph Krska, despite bearing a\nCzech name, is more likely a tribute to Conrad himself, whose real name was\nJozef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski (the prefixes -ski and -ska being\nsynonymous in Polish). Further onomastics: while common enough in\nCzechoslovakia, Krska itself--properly, there should be a ~ over the\n's'--has no meaning in Czech and is therefore thought to have been\nSlovakanized by newly arrived immigrants long ago. Speculation is that it\nmay originally have been Russian for krishka (lid) or kroshka (crumb), but I\nprefer to think, given how I read the story's ending, that it's from\nkroshka, meaning infant. Surprised some of the list's more ardent religiosos\nhaven't discussed this one in depth and look forward to their analysis of\nsuch Wolfian neologisms as \"sohner\" (sonar + sohn, German for 'the Son') in\nthe context of the story.\n\n\"The Tree Is My Hat.\" A man afflicted with Hansen's disease is cured by the\nPolynesian version of the AntiChrist as the Millennium turns. Hey, what did\nyou expect from an anthology entitled _999_? Rather liked this one, but the\nstory is marred in my opinion by Wolfe's heavy-handed character names:\nBaden, the leper, is married to Mary Christmas, and their children's names\nare Mark and Adam. Sheesh!\n\n\"The Wafer.\" Wolfe mentions this in an interview as one of his better\nstories and how chagrinned\nhe is that no one seems to have read it. Could this be because _Lamps of the\nMouth_, the anthology which contains it, has a whopping list price of\n$125.00?\n\n\"The Walking Sticks.\" Dave Hartwell, despite being kind enough to mention me\nin the intro, gives away a plot element I would have preferred learning in\nthe story itself. Otherwise agree with Dr. Nick, in that it's rather\nunoutstanding. Again, perhaps mantis could enlighten us as to his favorable\nreview?\n\nFinal summation: if all of the above were collected into a single anthology,\nand then compared to the contents of _Strange Travelers_, I would have to\nsay the new collection is stronger. So it appears we all have something to\nlook forward to if this ever comes to pass.\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-05-01T14:13:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/28/02 1:52 PM, Robert Borski at rborski at charter.net wrote:\nAnd those of you who have started to think of GW as a cranky\nold man may be less than pleased by the sermonette at the end. (\"In the\ncentury we are just now closing out, we ordinary men and women have been in\nmuch greater danger from our own governments than from all the criminals in\nthe world.\")" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm one of \"those,\" but I have to admit Wolfe has a point here, at least if\nyou consider only death. The number of people in the 20th century killed by\ntheir own governments, or as a result of bad policies (i.e. famines) would\ncertainly be in the tens of millions, which might very well be greater than\nthe number of people killed by \"ordinary criminals,\" though I have no idea\nwhat the actual figure would be." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"A Fish Story.\" Is the key to understanding this short short to be found in\nthe name \"Rob Salmon\"? (Or something like that--can't find my F&SF with the\nstory at the moment) I.e., do ghosts return to the place they're \"born\" too?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I found this one pretty impenetrable myself." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"The Night Chough.\" Almost no one agreed with me that this story supported\nmy early notion that Scylla was riding Oreb and several people nearly\nself-combusted insisting this could not be so. It will therefore be\ninteresting to see how the story reads now that the Short Sun trilogy has\nconcluded." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't read this one until after Oreb's possession by Scylla had been\nrevealed, so I don't recall the arguments; but it seemed to me that the\nstory made it clear that *something* was \"riding\" Oreb. Knowing that it was\nScylla didn't add anything to the story for me; but then I've never been\nmuch taken by the possession stuff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Petting Zoo.\" Agree with mantis to a point--the story does seem like a\nCalvin-comes-of-age fable, except that the last paragraph also ominously\nsuggests that mankind no longer rules the Earth, robots do." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I only read this once, and not closely, but I took the last paragraph as\nmeaning that the Earth is now ruled by the nanny-state, which has tamed free\nand \"wild\" men like the protagonist had been as a child. (I'm speaking from\nWolfe's perspective, not my own.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"The Walking Sticks.\" Dave Hartwell, despite being kind enough to mention me\nin the intro, gives away a plot element I would have preferred learning in\nthe story itself." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not that you don't see it coming a mile away." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Otherwise agree with Dr. Nick, in that it's rather\nunoutstanding." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Unoutstanding\" is putting it mildly.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-05-01T16:18:13+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Uncollected Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Adam Stephanides quoted Robert Borski and wrote:\n\"Petting Zoo.\" Agree with mantis to a point--the story does seem like a\nCalvin-comes-of-age fable, except that the last paragraph also ominously\nsuggests that mankind no longer rules the Earth, robots do." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I only read this once, and not closely, but I took the last paragraph as\nmeaning that the Earth is now ruled by the nanny-state, which has tamed free\nand \"wild\" men like the protagonist had been as a child. (I'm speaking from\nWolfe's perspective, not my own.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I could see these two elements (with thematic links back to \"Eyebem\"--I've\nbeen reading ORBIT anthos in memory of Knight's passing) and also, since\nthis is the sort of Wolfe ending that \"makes grown men weep and quiet women\nreach for their shooting irons,\" I could see a third element, too. That is,\nthe \"nanny\" of nanny-bot and nanny-state." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"The Walking Sticks.\" Dave Hartwell, despite being kind enough to mention me\nin the intro, gives away a plot element I would have preferred learning in\nthe story itself." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not that you don't see it coming a mile away." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Otherwise agree with Dr. Nick, in that it's rather\nunoutstanding." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Unoutstanding\" is putting it mildly." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read Nick's review first. IIRC, Nick felt that it is flawed in a\ncategorical sense: a mode or type, a narrative voice used in a group of\nstories that Nick finds fake/grating/distracting. Then later on I actually\nread the story, and I thought it wasn't as bad as Nick had made out. I\nthought it was rather like \"Redbeard,\" and I like that one okay. Forgive\nme! There's no accounting for taste. I probably like \"The Walking Sticks\"\nbetter than, say, \"Hour of Trust,\" but it will likely take years to tell.\n\nI was surprised by the ending, actually--I didn't see it coming and still\ndon't see it as something from the original source text. Nor do I see it\nas a cop-out or a cheat (as the end of \"Hour of Trust\" sometimes seems to\nme: at the very least, a bad splice), rather I saw it as an unexpected\nangle, like how the end of \"Bluesberry Jam\" took a familiar story and put a\nperfect twist on it. Then again, it has been many years since I read the\nsource book, and the most recent thing about it that I read was\nSutherland's essay on the physique/physiology of Mr. H (I couldn't even say\nwhat the possible answers were, too fuzzy--especially with the inclusion of\nmovie versions), so it may be that it all springs from there (the source\ntext). (But it seems to me to be much more like M.R. James--oh yes,\nanother book which fell into my path in the last few months, GHOST STORIES\nOF AN ANTIQUARY. James and his architecture! So strong that it might even\npush John Crowley entirely out of \"The Haunted Boardinghouse\"--it was M.R.\nJames again! And all that architecture in \"Hour of Trust\"?)\n\nI might even like \"The Walking Sticks\" better than \"Eleventh City\" and \"A\nTraveler in Desert Lands.\" In fact yes, I do--go figure!\n\nBut I don't like any of them as much as \"Petting Zoo.\"\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSIRIUS FICTION\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\n26 Lexicons left until OP!\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] } ] }