{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3055", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3055, "subject": "\"a right good thrashing...\"", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-03-20T02:36:42+00:00", "last": "2002-03-20T12:10:03+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gage Kerrigan", "address": "willickers_g at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-03-20T02:36:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) \"a right good thrashing...\"", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hmmm... Interesting\n\n Today, while reading papers on TBotNS for my\nreport, I read (for the first time) a paper that had\nfound it's way into my possession after I last sent my\ntheory into review amongst you vicous marmocets...\n\n The name of the piece was \"On Encompassing the\nUniverse\". Perhaps some of you have heard of it? I\nencourage you to re-read it.\n\n My theory was that Urth had steadily worsened\nenvironmentally throughout all of its existance (even\nas Earth) and did so steadily untill Typhon's regime,\nin which the sun first begins to show signs of decay,\nafter which the environment gets screwy for a while...\n\n I stated the source of this problem as being human\nindifference/laziness/stubborness.\n\n I asserted that this trend is a continuation of our\ncurrent situation, that overpopulation and dirty\ntechnology was considered all right by many, and that\nnot only would a solution to pollution (inadvertant\nrhyme) not be found, but that HUMANITY WOULD STAY ON\nTHE EARTH UNTIL DRAGGED AWAY KICKING AND SCREAMING...\n'cept maybe not phrased quite like that, more like the\nspace program is dead blah blah humanity will remain\nuntil Earth no longer supports human life... or\nsomething (I don't have a copy, I'm paraphrasing from\nmemory).\n\n Well...\n\n I was ripped to bloody pieces, tattered remnants of\na former self...\n\n Not one of you chose to voice your opinion on my\nside. \"The space program is not dead.\" you said (yeah,\nin the same way that Cheney's heart hasn't stopped),\n\"There is no proof that we did not invent cleaner\ntechnologies or leave the planet on our own volition\"\nyou said...\n\n Perhaps we only enjoy naysaying.....\n\n Such sweet coincidence was it then, when today I\ndiscovered this indisputable reference as to what Mr.\nWolfe was imagining when he created his future...\n\n I will quote from the article now, a short bit of\nhis final reply of the interview, as accurately as I\ncan.\n\nLarry McCaffery:\n \"...Once we exhaust our resources, we'll be left in\nthe kind of world you're describing in The Book of the\nNew Sun.\"\n\nGene Wolfe:\n \"...I was trying to come to grips with the\nend-result of the do-nothing attidtude so many\npeople-on-the-street have about the future. These\npeople seem to feel that space exploration is a lot of\nbullshit (\"there's nothing really out there we can\nuse\"), that undersea exploration is a lot of bullshit\n(\"there's nothing down there for us\"), that we should\njust go about our business the way we are and be\n\"sensible.\" But what is going to happen if we keep on\nbeing \"sensible\" in the way they're suggesting? If we\nkeep clinging to our old home (the planet Earth) and\nsit around waiting for the money and resources to run\nout? The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is\nthe world which has followed that course, a world in\nwhich people have been so limited in their vision of\nthe future that they saw no other option except what\nwas immediately in front of them.\"\n\n The quote does not stop there, but he does start to\nramble about cabbages and fishtanks (seriously!), and\nhe begins to express his _personal opinions_ about\nwhat we should do in the future.\n\n And we all know what happens to personal opinions\nthat some of you get wind of...\n\n My opinions obviously meant squat (and I posted\nthem without knowing of the interview), whether Mr.\nWolfe's opinions mean squat is irrelevant...\n\n Because: I... Am... Correct...\n\n Anyone who feels inclined to disagree will be sent\na copy of the lines \"The Urth I invented in The Book\nof the New Sun is the world which has followed that\ncourse...\" and with the suffix \"so there\" for good\nmeasure.\n\n Outside the issue of definative evidence, I think\nthat when national space organizations (not to be\nconfused with NASA) send me letters to the extent of\n\"send us money or we will tank\" and a spot on the\nreturn envelope that quite politely says \"using your\nown stamps saves us money!\" prooves beyound doubt in\nmy mind that:\n 1. The space program has been maimed to the extent\nof the Black Night in Monty Python's Quest for the\nHoly Grail.\n 2. I was correct there as well...\n\n If you have proof otherwise, please include a\npicture of you, your family, and your family pets\noutside of your Bio-Sphere on Mars (or another\nnon-Earth planet) with your reply.\n\n Sincerely,\n «LORD ENS»\n\nPs. Attn: Anyone who is uninvolved, I regret coming\noff as boastful, arrogant, and impertenent. I was\nmerely dissapointed with having my premonitions\nsquashed beyond flat, and I felt that having such\nweighty evidence gave me some bragging/gloating rights post-thrashing...\n\n=====\nG Willickers\n aka\nGage Kerrigan" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-03-20T12:10:03+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) \"a right good thrashing...\"", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 20/03/2002 02:36:42 Gage Kerrigan wrote:\nHmmm... Interesting\n\n The name of the piece was \"On Encompassing the\nUniverse\". Perhaps some of you have heard of it? I\nencourage you to re-read it.\n\n My theory was that Urth had steadily worsened\nenvironmentally throughout all of its existance (even\nas Earth) and did so steadily untill Typhon's regime,\nin which the sun first begins to show signs of decay,\nafter which the environment gets screwy for a while..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Fine. Consistant with what TBotNS tells us." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I stated the source of this problem as being human\nindifference/laziness/stubborness.\n\n I asserted that this trend is a continuation of our\ncurrent situation, that overpopulation and dirty\ntechnology was considered all right by many, and that\nnot only would a solution to pollution (inadvertant\nrhyme) not be found, but that HUMANITY WOULD STAY ON\nTHE EARTH UNTIL DRAGGED AWAY KICKING AND SCREAMING...\n'cept maybe not phrased quite like that, more like the\nspace program is dead blah blah humanity will remain\nuntil Earth no longer supports human life... or\nsomething (I don't have a copy, I'm paraphrasing from\nmemory)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I was ripped to bloody pieces, tattered remnants of\na former self..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Larry McCaffery:\n \"...Once we exhaust our resources, we'll be left in\nthe kind of world you're describing in The Book of the\nNew Sun.\"\n\nGene Wolfe:\n \"...I was trying to come to grips with the\nend-result of the do-nothing attidtude so many\npeople-on-the-street have about the future. These\npeople seem to feel that space exploration is a lot of\nbullshit (\"there's nothing really out there we can\nuse\"), that undersea exploration is a lot of bullshit\n(\"there's nothing down there for us\"), that we should\njust go about our business the way we are and be\n\"sensible.\" But what is going to happen if we keep on\nbeing \"sensible\" in the way they're suggesting? If we\nkeep clinging to our old home (the planet Earth) and\nsit around waiting for the money and resources to run\nout? The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is\nthe world which has followed that course, a world in\nwhich people have been so limited in their vision of\nthe future that they saw no other option except what\nwas immediately in front of them.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We also know from TBoyNS that Man went into space, there were human\nempires of which Typhon's was neither the first nor the greatest.\n\nNothing in the quotation contradicts this idea. Indeed Urth would be an\nexmplar of those who feel \"there's nothing there for us\". They were the\nones who didn't go, who remained because they couldn't see the advantages\nof going: and that is the population which continued the degredation of\nthe ecosphere and held the mindset that inderlies the culture of Urth in\nTBotNS.\n\nFar from bloody shreds 'twas more a mild laceration disputing only your\ncontention that mankind did not make it in space at all because the idea\nis flatly contradicted both in the reported history in TBotNS and in the\nperson of Jonas.\n\nMatthew" } ] } ] }