# "a right good thrashing..." *The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 20 Mar 2002* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Gage Kerrigan *20 Mar 2002, 02:36* Hmmm... Interesting Today, while reading papers on TBotNS for my report, I read (for the first time) a paper that had found it's way into my possession after I last sent my theory into review amongst you vicous marmocets... The name of the piece was "On Encompassing the Universe". Perhaps some of you have heard of it? I encourage you to re-read it. My theory was that Urth had steadily worsened environmentally throughout all of its existance (even as Earth) and did so steadily untill Typhon's regime, in which the sun first begins to show signs of decay, after which the environment gets screwy for a while... I stated the source of this problem as being human indifference/laziness/stubborness. I asserted that this trend is a continuation of our current situation, that overpopulation and dirty technology was considered all right by many, and that not only would a solution to pollution (inadvertant rhyme) not be found, but that HUMANITY WOULD STAY ON THE EARTH UNTIL DRAGGED AWAY KICKING AND SCREAMING... 'cept maybe not phrased quite like that, more like the space program is dead blah blah humanity will remain until Earth no longer supports human life... or something (I don't have a copy, I'm paraphrasing from memory). Well... I was ripped to bloody pieces, tattered remnants of a former self... Not one of you chose to voice your opinion on my side. "The space program is not dead." you said (yeah, in the same way that Cheney's heart hasn't stopped), "There is no proof that we did not invent cleaner technologies or leave the planet on our own volition" you said... Perhaps we only enjoy naysaying..... Such sweet coincidence was it then, when today I discovered this indisputable reference as to what Mr. Wolfe was imagining when he created his future... I will quote from the article now, a short bit of his final reply of the interview, as accurately as I can. Larry McCaffery: "...Once we exhaust our resources, we'll be left in the kind of world you're describing in The Book of the New Sun." Gene Wolfe: "...I was trying to come to grips with the end-result of the do-nothing attidtude so many people-on-the-street have about the future. These people seem to feel that space exploration is a lot of bullshit ("there's nothing really out there we can use"), that undersea exploration is a lot of bullshit ("there's nothing down there for us"), that we should just go about our business the way we are and be "sensible." But what is going to happen if we keep on being "sensible" in the way they're suggesting? If we keep clinging to our old home (the planet Earth) and sit around waiting for the money and resources to run out? The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is the world which has followed that course, a world in which people have been so limited in their vision of the future that they saw no other option except what was immediately in front of them." The quote does not stop there, but he does start to ramble about cabbages and fishtanks (seriously!), and he begins to express his _personal opinions_ about what we should do in the future. And we all know what happens to personal opinions that some of you get wind of... My opinions obviously meant squat (and I posted them without knowing of the interview), whether Mr. Wolfe's opinions mean squat is irrelevant... Because: I... Am... Correct... Anyone who feels inclined to disagree will be sent a copy of the lines "The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is the world which has followed that course..." and with the suffix "so there" for good measure. Outside the issue of definative evidence, I think that when national space organizations (not to be confused with NASA) send me letters to the extent of "send us money or we will tank" and a spot on the return envelope that quite politely says "using your own stamps saves us money!" prooves beyound doubt in my mind that: 1. The space program has been maimed to the extent of the Black Night in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail. 2. I was correct there as well... If you have proof otherwise, please include a picture of you, your family, and your family pets outside of your Bio-Sphere on Mars (or another non-Earth planet) with your reply. Sincerely, «LORD ENS» Ps. Attn: Anyone who is uninvolved, I regret coming off as boastful, arrogant, and impertenent. I was merely dissapointed with having my premonitions squashed beyond flat, and I felt that having such weighty evidence gave me some bragging/gloating rights post-thrashing... ===== G Willickers aka Gage Kerrigan --- ### matthew.malthouse *20 Mar 2002, 12:10 · follows Gage Kerrigan* > On 20/03/2002 02:36:42 Gage Kerrigan wrote: > Hmmm... Interesting > > The name of the piece was "On Encompassing the > Universe". Perhaps some of you have heard of it? I > encourage you to re-read it. > > My theory was that Urth had steadily worsened > environmentally throughout all of its existance (even > as Earth) and did so steadily untill Typhon's regime, > in which the sun first begins to show signs of decay, > after which the environment gets screwy for a while... Fine. Consistant with what TBotNS tells us. > I stated the source of this problem as being human > indifference/laziness/stubborness. > > I asserted that this trend is a continuation of our > current situation, that overpopulation and dirty > technology was considered all right by many, and that > not only would a solution to pollution (inadvertant > rhyme) not be found, but that HUMANITY WOULD STAY ON > THE EARTH UNTIL DRAGGED AWAY KICKING AND SCREAMING... > 'cept maybe not phrased quite like that, more like the > space program is dead blah blah humanity will remain > until Earth no longer supports human life... or > something (I don't have a copy, I'm paraphrasing from > memory). > I was ripped to bloody pieces, tattered remnants of > a former self... > Larry McCaffery: > "...Once we exhaust our resources, we'll be left in > the kind of world you're describing in The Book of the > New Sun." > > Gene Wolfe: > "...I was trying to come to grips with the > end-result of the do-nothing attidtude so many > people-on-the-street have about the future. These > people seem to feel that space exploration is a lot of > bullshit ("there's nothing really out there we can > use"), that undersea exploration is a lot of bullshit > ("there's nothing down there for us"), that we should > just go about our business the way we are and be > "sensible." But what is going to happen if we keep on > being "sensible" in the way they're suggesting? If we > keep clinging to our old home (the planet Earth) and > sit around waiting for the money and resources to run > out? The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is > the world which has followed that course, a world in > which people have been so limited in their vision of > the future that they saw no other option except what > was immediately in front of them." We also know from TBoyNS that Man went into space, there were human empires of which Typhon's was neither the first nor the greatest. Nothing in the quotation contradicts this idea. Indeed Urth would be an exmplar of those who feel "there's nothing there for us". They were the ones who didn't go, who remained because they couldn't see the advantages of going: and that is the population which continued the degredation of the ecosphere and held the mindset that inderlies the culture of Urth in TBotNS. Far from bloody shreds 'twas more a mild laceration disputing only your contention that mankind did not make it in space at all because the idea is flatly contradicted both in the reported history in TBotNS and in the person of Jonas. Matthew ---