{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3094", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3094, "subject": "Space Vampires from the Green Planet!", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-03-26T16:16:41+00:00", "last": "2002-03-27T10:34:52+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-03-26T16:16:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Space Vampires from the Green Planet!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Regarding the similarity of Urth and Blue/Green lifeforms and their\nability to eat each other, this is an old standard convention in science\nfiction. Let's remember that the Short Sun series are, among many other\nthings, Wolfe's take on the pulp planetary exploration novels complete\nwith Vampires from Outer Space! In these novels, the fauna from other\nplanets are just like ours, with extra limbs or two heads or blue\nfur. See also Star Trek.\n\nMany otherwise \"hard\" science-fiction novels gloss over having Earth-like\nplants and animals on other planets. Some, like Larry Niven come up with\nsome kind of justification for it (planets all seeded by earlier space\nempire), others just ignore the question. In general, if the characters\ndon't bring up the unlikelihood of other planets having such similar\nplants and animals, you're just supposed to ignore it and get on with the\nstory.\n\nGiven these conventions, I think Wolfe is using the extra limbs to denote\nalien-ness, while the similarity of life allows for low-tech colonists and\nmonsters that suck their blood. (Note also that the colonists had to\nbring their own crops. They aren't able to subsist only on the native\nBluvian crops.)\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-03-26T17:01:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Space Vampires from the Green Planet!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Rostrum wrote:\nMany otherwise \"hard\" science-fiction novels gloss over having Earth-like\nplants and animals on other planets. Some, like Larry Niven come up with\nsome kind of justification for it (planets all seeded by earlier space\nempire), others just ignore the question. In general, if the characters\ndon't bring up the unlikelihood of other planets having such similar\nplants and animals, you're just supposed to ignore it and get on with the\nstory." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right. We (well, me and someone else around here) were more distracted\nwhen hard sf guy Vernor Vinge had human kids crash on a random planet that\njust happened to have edible grains and protein . . . as a case of random\nchance, like a voyage to an uncharted planet, this seemed a bit far off the\nthinking at the time A FIRE UPON THE DEEP was written (the 90s). And it\ncould have been fixed, it seemed, with a single sentence.\n\nBack to Typhon. I don't think there is any sense of the Whorl being an\nexploration vessel: it is a colonization ship. It is not looking for a\nhome, stopping at every oasis in the desert of space, it is going straight\nto the place, non-stop. The target star system is, therefore, presumed to\nbe known in advance. Of all the uncolonized-yet-colonizable planets in the\ngalaxy, surely a ruler will select a planet that has compatible DNA\n(especially if the colonization effort is one ship). This is part of the\n\"habitability\" package, after all, and has been since the 1960s: another\nfactor, just as gravity, sunlight, oxy/nitrogen atmosphere, atmospheric\npressure, water, length of local day, etc., but one that comes near the end\nof the stream.\n\nAs for Typhon loading an ark to repopulate Urth. No. This function is\nbeing carried out, either by design or by accident, by the Ship Tzadkiel.\nFrom the play by Talos; from the plan for the sailors in the Hall of\nJustice (iirc it was: if the sailors win, they can stop the New Sun, if\nthey lose they can populate Ushas); from the way that guards bring news of\nships dropping off people at the time of the deluge (echoing the play): it\nseems like Tzadkiel drops off Adam&Eve packets onto Urth in lean times,\njust as Tzadkiel seems to snatch people up in other times (all that trade\nin slaves).\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSIRIUS FICTION\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\n42 Lexicons left until OP!\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-03-26T17:57:53+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Space Vampires from the Green Planet!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mantis wrote:\nAs for Typhon loading an ark to repopulate Urth. No. This\nfunction is being carried out, either by design or by\naccident, by the Ship Tzadkiel. From the play by Talos; from\nthe plan for the sailors in the Hall of Justice (iirc it was:\nif the sailors win, they can stop the New Sun, if they lose\nthey can populate Ushas); from the way that guards bring news\nof ships dropping off people at the time of the deluge\n(echoing the play): it seems like Tzadkiel drops off Adam&Eve\npackets onto Urth in lean times, just as Tzadkiel seems to\nsnatch people up in other times (all that trade in slaves)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "... and you know what? This is the best argument I've seen for\nthe WHORL returning to Urth: Tzadkiel (or Tzad's masters) rerouting\nit to repopulate. It still falls a smidgeon short of a smoking gun,\nbut it provides a much more plausible reason, imho, than Typhon\ngiving enough of a damn about posterity to want to repopulate Urth\nafter the coming of the New Sun (which, I believe, he intended to\nprevent anyway ... though he's clever enough to play both ends \nagainst the middle this way)." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-03-27T10:34:52+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Space Vampires from the Green Planet!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 26/03/2002 17:01:56 Michael Andre-Driussi wrote:\nAs for Typhon loading an ark to repopulate Urth. No. This function is\nbeing carried out, either by design or by accident, by the Ship Tzadkiel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From the play by Talos; from the plan for the sailors in the Hall of\nJustice (iirc it was: if the sailors win, they can stop the New Sun, if\nthey lose they can populate Ushas); from the way that guards bring news\nof\nships dropping off people at the time of the deluge (echoing the play):" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "it" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "seems like Tzadkiel drops off Adam&Eve packets onto Urth in lean times,\njust as Tzadkiel seems to snatch people up in other times (all that trade\nin slaves)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And in support: such a move would be contrary to Typhon's ambition to\n(re-)conquor his stellar empire. He doesn't care about Urth, the\nbackwater, any more than as a springboard from which to re-enter the\nbigger game out amongst the stars.\n\n\nBut that does leave me pondering the old question \"why did he do it?\"\nTyphon's conversations with Severian first when awoken on his couch and\nlater (in Severian's experience) as Severian is traveling the history of\nUrth definitely suggest a man right up there at the cutting edge of the\ntyranting business. Long tern strategems or back-up plans don't really\nseem to be Typhon's style.\n\nMatthew" } ] } ] }