{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3104", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3104, "subject": "Crowley's The Translator", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-03-29T16:11:31+00:00", "last": "2002-04-02T15:29:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Russell Wodell", "address": "hse at telus.net" }, "date": "2002-03-29T16:11:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Crowley's The Translator", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Notes from a first reading:\n\n1. The source seems to be Auden's famous quote that poets are the\nunacknowledged legislators of reality. Here, this seems to be interpreted as\npoet=saint or poet=angel.\n\n2. Crowley seems to be saying that the peaceful resolution of the Cuban\nMissile Crisis was a literal miracle. Exactly how an exiled Russian poet\ncould prevent nuclear war is left as teasingly unclear as the actions of the\nfairies in \"Little, Big.\"\n\n3. The poetic concept that each nation has two opposing angels seems to be\nmeant literally as well -- but Crowley is a recovering Catholic and is\ndeeply ambiguous about this. There are several candidates for America's dark\nangel.\n\n4. The hostile NY Times review complained that Crowley's invented Russian\npoetry was awful. I strongly disagree: I found it moving and much more\nauthentic than, say D.M. Thomas's similar efforts in his novels (though his\ntranslations of actual poetry are sometime marvellous).\n---\nOutgoing mail is certified Virus Free." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Davis", "address": "matthew at michaelscycles.freeserve.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-03-31T13:26:21+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Crowley's The Translator", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "1. The source seems to be Auden's famous quote that poets are the\nunacknowledged legislators of reality. Here, this seems to be\ninterpreted as\npoet=saint or poet=angel." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The \"poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world\" quote is from\nShelley, not Auden. \"Poet\" in Greek means \"maker\", so poets _are_ the\ncreators of our world, in as much they shape our understanding of them.\nBesides Nabokov and Brodsky, I also wonder how much Robert Frost might be an\ninfluence - at the time of the Cuba Crisis I think he made some notable\ncomment but I can't remember what. But then again copies of \"The Translator\"\nhaven't even begun appearing over in the UK, so what do I know." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I haven't seen this review yet (was it in the NYTBR, or in the daily\npaper?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reviews of Crowley's Translator so far:\n\nLocus, February 2002 (Faren Miller) - not online\n\nBook Magazine, March/April 2002 (James Schiff)\nhttp://www.bookmagazine.com/issue21/capsules.shtml#Crowley\n\nNew York Times, March 13, 2002 (Richard Eder)\nhttp://query.nytimes.com/search/full-page?res=9B01E0DE1539F930A25750C0A9649C\n8B63\n\nChristian Science Monitor, March 21, 2002 (Ron Charles)\nhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0321/p15s02-bogn.html\n\nSalon, March 21, 2002 (Laura Miller)\nhttp://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/03/21/crowley/index.html?x\n\nWashington Post Book World, March 24, 2002 (Howard Norman)\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A2\n76-2002Mar21¬Found=true\n\nSan Francisco Chronicle, March 24, 2002 (Miriam Wolf)\nhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/03/24/RV\n128730.DTL\n\nBooksense magazine has an interview with Crowley about \"The Translator\"\nhttp://www.booksense.com/people/archive/crowleyjohn.jsp" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-04-01T16:48:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Crowley's The Translator", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 3/31/02 7:26 AM, Matthew Davis at matthew at michaelscycles.freeserve.co.uk\nwrote:\nBesides Nabokov and Brodsky, I also wonder how much Robert Frost might be an\ninfluence - at the time of the Cuba Crisis I think he made some notable\ncomment but I can't remember what." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Frost read a poem at Kennedy's inauguration, referred to on p. 4 of THE\nTRANSLATOR (which also has another reference to the Shelley quote). Neither\nFalin's poems nor Kit's own poems seem Frost-like to men, though I don't\nknow that much about poetry.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-04-02T15:29:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Crowley's The Translator", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 3/29/02 10:11 AM, Russell Wodell at hse at telus.net wrote:\n4. The hostile NY Times review complained that Crowley's invented Russian\npoetry was awful." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read the review cited by Matthew Davis, in the Mar. 13 NYT, and in fact it\npraises Falin's poetry. Was there another NYT review? I'd call the review\nas a whole mixed rather than hostile; the reviewer praises the character of\nFalin highly (though I strongly disagree with the statement that Kit is a\n\"pallid figure\").\n\n--Adam" } ] } ] }